Deities & Demigods

[S'mon]

Keeping to Norse myth, Garm should be about as tough as Tyr - they kill each other at Ragnarok - but weaker than Odin - Garm cowers when Odin rides past. Fenrir should be a lot bigger and tougher than Garm, & capable of devouring Odin & Sleipnir with one bite.

 

[Staffan]

baloo?

Yes, that would be me.

 

[S'mon]

By contrast, Greek legendary monsters should be much weaker than the deities, they regularly get squelched by mortal heroes and are more often pawns of the gods than Norse-style nemeses.

 

[Knight Otu]

Well, taking a closer look at the salient abilities of the gods presented in Dragon #294, both Rao and Tharizdun have the "Divine Spellcasting"salient ability and spell slots abvove 9th level, while neither Iuz nor Pholtus have either.

How this ability works out in detail remains to be seen, but I guess it *could* have something to do with it...

I seem to have missed this ability when I read the stat block (Maybe I need glasses? ). But Tharizdun also has level 10+ spell slots for his wizard spells, and Divine Spellcasting does not seem to fit in this case? When I get home I'll take another deep look into the article to see if I missed more important things (And stupid me thought that I already read it in depth ). Well, these things happen...

 

[Vecna]

Deity Meta
Proxies are defined as mortals in whom whom the deity has invested 1 DR. This is not lightly done as the deity actually has to give up some of his power. The proxy becomes a DR1 demigod and has access to some of the deity's salient abilities. No mention is made of what happens if a proxy dies, but if the proxy is aware of impending death, he can use remote communication to inform his deity, who can recall the divine power as a standard action.

So, Proxies can't enter Sigil, being themselves deities now...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Colonel Hardisson mate!

Actually, though, I look at it like this - the Monster Manual provided many of the various monsters from myth and legend, with their origins in mind. That is, Titans are the Greek Titans, dire animals were included because so many legends and myths involve them - such as the Norse legend of the Fenris wolf, and templates help customize them all to taste, to give any given creature a touch of the divine, infernal, or supernatural. In effect, the Monster Manual is one big appendix for Deities & Demigods. Variations on the monsters from individual myths and legends have already been worked into the system. As I've tried to show, many of the most famous critters from myth and legend are already integral elements of D&D. Sure, there are lots of dragons, but the Monster Manual provides guidelines for the creation of an almost infinite array of monsters, and gives many examples of a number of them. Giants, for example. Creatures of fairy are also well represented.

One of my previous posts was in response to this point as well.

I guess my main point is that most of the monsters from the pantheons that are in Deities & Demigods are already well-represented in D&D. I can't think of many that aren't. Maybe a bit of fluff text in Deities & Demigods explaining how these critters fit into the myths the pantheon are drawn from would've been appropriate. For example, they could've explained Fenris wolf and his place in Norse mythology, and said something like: "for Fenris Wolf's stats, use a Dire Wolf of maximum advancement, with the Half-fiend Template and DR of..." You get the idea, I'm sure.

I agree they could have been easily explained.

To back up my previous attempts at a rough overview of Garm and Fenris Wolf I think you have to acknowledge two types of monsters.

Creatures like Cerberus; Garm; the Tarrasque are feared by mortals. These could probably be determined with little effort through Legendary Animal types and adding Divine Rank 0.

Whereas beings such as Fenris Wolf; Jormungandr; Typhon (Uber-monsters if you will) are feared by deities! These monsters perhaps need special attention.

 

[Zarrock God of Evil]

So, Proxies can't enter Sigil, being themselves deities now...

That's not really a valid point as De&De doesn't serve to accommodate the needs of an old setting (I'm a big Planescape fan though) - also remember that proxy won't be considered a full deity - he's merely imbued with divine power that can be taken from him at will. It would be easy to go around this, though, the deity could simply reclaim his power for the duration of the proxy's stay in Sigil - which would make sense as the Lady of Pain would block all divine essence from the city (the point should be, however - what is she blocking? Just divine power in general or only true deities?)

-Zarrock

 

[Vecna]

That's not really a valid point as De&De doesn't serve to accommodate the needs of an old setting (I'm a big Planescape fan though) - also remember that proxy won't be considered a full deity - he's merely imbued with divine power that can be taken from him at will.

PS got the shaft!

 

[BOZ]

Yes, that would be me.

long time no see! been awhile since the TSR chat room

 

[Daeinar]

But Tharizdun also has level 10+ spell slots for his wizard spells, and Divine Spellcasting does not seem to fit in this case?

Well, but "divine" could in this case just indicate the divine quality of this ability. After All, the Powers have all sorts of abilities names "Divine ..."

And it would even fit, because Rao has
3/3/3/3/2/2/2/2 cleric spells above 9th level,

Tharizdun only has 3/2/2/2/2 cleric spells abvove 9th, but 3/3/3/3/2/2/2/2 wizard spells above 9th, just the same Number Rao has.

Now,if you look up their stats, you will see Rao having a 44 Wis and Tharizdun a 44 Int (surpise, surprise...), but Tharizdun has only an effective Wis of 19 (or so it seems).

Whatever the case, I guess that "Divine Spellcasting" simply allows a deity to receive bonus spell slots above 9th level based on the related ability score(s).

But I'll find out sooner or later anyway...