• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Design & Development: Warlord Article UP!

Jack99

Adventurer
Derren said:
I agree with KarinsDad and Falling Icicle. This powers are completely unbelievable.

Why can a Warlord pin down an enemy only once a day? Why remains the enemy pinned down for the whole combat even if the warlord moves away after applying this ability and this enemy is not threatened by any PC for several turns?
Why can the warlord forcibly move his allies around? How can the warlord hasten his allies with nonmagical abilities?

Why can a wizard cast arcane spells? Why can a warlock cast eldrish blast, why can a rogue sneak attack, why can a monk stun, why why why why???

Training!

PS: yes, I know that we have no idea if the monk can stun in 4e, I just thought it fit well tematically or something.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

FourthBear

First Post
Derren said:
I agree with KarinsDad and Falling Icicle. This powers are completely unbelievable.

Why can a Warlord pin down an enemy only once a day? Why remains the enemy pinned down for the whole combat even if the warlord moves away after applying this ability and this enemy is not threatened by any PC for several turns?
Why can the warlord forcibly move his allies around? How can the warlord hasten his allies with nonmagical abilities?
If you truly believe that these abilities are outside of your comfort zone for non-magical abilities, then I suggest that you take the Warlord class, rename it the Battle Sage and make it an arcane class. Then you can use the Pin the Foe and similar abilities as magic without having to strain your suspension of disbelief in how these things can be accomplished by a martial character in D&D abstract combat system.
 

Imp

First Post
Derren said:
Why can the warlord forcibly move his allies around? How can the warlord hasten his allies with nonmagical abilities?
It's very easy to forget this because there isn't cause to look at it very closely 99% of the time, but initiative and turn order in D&D is a total and complete abstraction for the sake of playing a game and, in all of its implementations, is even more of a hash than hit points are, wrt "reality". It's a way of making a giant flurry of near-simultaneous actions make sense and not very much more.
 

Derren said:
I agree with KarinsDad and Falling Icicle. This powers are completely unbelievable.
I'm sure you've heard all this before, but what the hell.
Derren said:
Why can a Warlord pin down an enemy only once a day?
This is a complaint about the nature of the martial power system, not these particular abilities. The narrative, player controlled yet not necessarily character controlled nature of the powers has been explained several times in this thread and others.
Derren said:
Why remains the enemy pinned down for the whole combat even if the warlord moves away after applying this ability and this enemy is not threatened by any PC for several turns?
Because the Warlord has slashed it's tendons? Because the Warlord has shown and helped their allies find a particular weakness in that monsters movement strategies/modes? Because not being in melee for 12-18 seconds doesn't change the fact that it's still off balance from the Warlord's attack?
Derren said:
Why can the warlord forcibly move his allies around?
Because they're his allies, and they trust him to make the right tactical choices.
Derren said:
How can the warlord hasten his allies with nonmagical abilities?
Because people perform better and faster with proper guidance, support and encouragement. Maybe the Warlord planned out a bunch of possibilities with the party before hand allowing them to react to the situation faster than before, or maybe the warlord pushes them forward and onwards with a stirring speech. Pick one that's appropriate for the particular battle and have fun with it.
 

WhatGravitas

Explorer
Derren said:
How can the warlord hasten his allies with nonmagical abilities?
Because he knows how to get the most out of the grid the situation? Or because people don't move exactly 30 feet per round, but a bit more or less, and the warlord knows how to use that excess or usually wasted movement?
Derren said:
Why can the warlord forcibly move his allies around?
Because they are his ally - you accept his commands/tactics. If you don't want to, just say no - because being allied implies sharing consent over the action. Oh, you mean that rules lawyer definition of ally?

Cheers, LT.
 

Revinor

First Post
Derren said:
How can the warlord hasten his allies with nonmagical abilities?

I would not focus too much on 'nonmagical'. Martial is a power source. On epic levels, we will probably see fighters auto-ressurecting from death. I would rather see martial as para-magic thing (not affected by antimagic/wild magic fields/whatever) - bit supernatural.

I hope you are familiar with Dune from Frank Herbert. Is Bene Gesserit Voice a magic ability? No, it was explained as very advanced form of behaviour manipulation/hypnosis. Still, for all the practical purposes it is pure magic. I would see martial powers which are not purely action-based similar to that - something working on the level of subconscious mind, aikido-like usage of opponents momentum AND expectations.

Obviously, you can argue that none of these should work on mindless ooze. No real momentum, no mind, most of the explanations will not fit here. But do we really want to have special case for oozes?

I personally don't have any issue with martial powers being able to influence the opponents. For me, issue is that this influence is expressed in terms of battlemap squares, not role play effects. We have to discover the meaning of the power from the game effect, instead of trying to find game result of narrative action. But I hope I'll manage.
 

FourthBear

First Post
I would say that one change I might make in the movement rules for White Raven Onslaught is that while the attacker can pick the square that the other player can slide into, the other player doesn't *have* to move. I think that would represent the fact that under the Warlord's direction/inspiration the party is working to manipulate the battlefield to create safe openings to move, but not remove autonomy from the other player (i.e., keep you damn dirty paws off my PC!)

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a general rule for this situation in the PH. Something along the lines of: Veto, a PC can as a free action choose to not to take any action or move granted by another allied PCs actions.
 
Last edited:

Ian O'Rourke

First Post
As the months have passed I've just come to the conclusion that if you look at 4E as a board game it all makes sense.

More specifically a competitive board game to be played at organised play events with organised play having a lot of similarities to an MMO at the table.

Everything makes sense then. This isn't a snark, it's just the way I've come to view it and it all falls into place...for me, anyway.
 
Last edited:

Ipissimus

First Post
I don't have any problem with the Warlord. I do think part of the problems people are having is looking at the powers from the wrong direction.

The Warlord isn't 'mystically pushing' people around. He's using his skills and oratory ability to help his comrades, much like the Bard used to inspire competance with music. He is creating opportunities in the flow of the combat, the way leaders do on the battlefield, in such a way his fellow PCs can exploit to thier own advantage.The Warlord can do this because he has the practical strategic and communicative ability to do so where others lack the training and knowledge required to perform the task.

It's two different types of training, in real armies officers don't go to the same schools as the grunts for good reasons. Of course, this doesn't stop the officer from being a muppet, but that's a separate issue as PCs are assumed to be competant in their basic abilities.

Pin the Foe allows the Warlord to co-ordinate with another character to hem in an opponant, unless the opponant is willing to brave their steel. In effect, it eliminates the ability to get away without risk.

White Raven Onslaught represents a grand co-ordinated tactic designed to apply pressure to the enemy and control the space through increased mobility. Like a fireball in close quarters, no it's not going to be useful in every situation.

Iron Dragon Charge is all about the meat of combat: Increasing your damage output by getting more allies into combat faster.

These are personal-level tactics rather than squad-based which are the domain of the entire party. Granted, White Raven Onslaught branches into the squad-based tactics a little, but when used in a situation where the extra movement is welcome it will be a boon (I just hope that the slide isn't mandatory, that would be annoying). Each provides a distinct combat advantage in certain situations, choosing the power to fit the situation is going to be the Warlord's challenge.

The other point of 'how' can someone do this in a round, I don't have problems here either. A round is 6 seconds... 6 seconds is a long time in a fight. It doesn't take 6 seconds to make one basic attack, I even think 1 basic attack and 8 AoOs wouldn't take a trained warrior 6 seconds. Particularly not a heroic warrior. So a leader character that can use that time to better effect appeals to me.

Of course, the downside is that the Warlord will have the unique ability to get a party killed in a variety of new ways... much like a Wizard could char-broil his party with a too-nasty fireball, a Thief could cause much pain by setting off the wrong trap, etc.
 

med stud

First Post
Keefe the Thief said:
A very interesting preview. I cannot wait for the first couple of players who choose a warlord and come up with interesting stories about his background, training and powers.... :D

... wait, i´m doing something wrong, do i?

Ahem.

Ah...

Verisimilitude!
Gustavus II Adolphus (a big name in military history) started leading armies to victory by the age of 16. He was a natural talent and was raised to lead people. Alexander the Great was 33 years old when he died, early in his career he was easily in the agespan of a starting D&D character.

If you don't want kings for lvl 1 PCs (which I understand), there are lots of chieftans and the like who was born and raised to lead other people. There are also natural talents. Look through a history book and you will find that there are many 15 year olds who were competent leaders.

If you just make a tiny effort, you will find it well in the realm of the believable with a level 1 warlord.
 

Remove ads

Top