D&D (2024) Developer Video on Druid/Paladin/Expert Feedback

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WotC has posted a video discussing initial feedback on the One D&D Druid/Paladin playtest, along with survey results from the Expert playtest. Some highlights for discussion:

Druid: The developers recognize that the template version of wild shape is contentious. If they retain this approach, they would plan to add flexibility to those templates. If they revert to monster stat blocks, they might allow Druids to choose a limited number of options, with a default selection provided.

Paladin: The new version of smite is still intended to work with critical hits. If ranged smite persists, its damage may be adjusted through the internal balance/playtesting process.

Ranger: The updated Ranger scored very well in the playtest. Some players did miss the choice of options in the Hunter subclass.

Bard: All of the Lore Bard's features scored welll, but the overall subclass rating was mediocre. They attribute this to the loss of Additional Magical Secrets, which many saw as the key attraction of this subclass.

Rogue: The change to limit sneak attack to the Rogue's own turn scored poorly. The developers generally like moving actions to a player's own turn to keep the game moving quickly, but in this case, the change doesn't seem to be worth the loss of tactical flexibility.

Feats: With the exception of epic boons, all the feats in the Expert packet scored well. The developers are still loking at written feedback for fine tuning.

Conspicuously not mentioned were the Arcane/Divine/Primal spell lists, which were the focus of a lot of discussion during the Bard playtest.

 

[Clint_L]

That's kind of interesting data. It's from 6 years ago, but apparently druid is still the least played class. I note that Crawford speculated that complexity could be part of the reason, but it's a bit hard to say. I think another issue could well be intra-class balance, since we know that apparently over 60% of druid players now choose circle of the moon (up from 25% in that infographic). It's almost become a class with one sub-class.

 

[Justice and Rule]

That's kind of interesting data. It's from 6 years ago, but apparently druid is still the least played class. I note that Crawford speculated that complexity could be part of the reason, but it's a bit hard to say. I think another issue could well be intra-class balance, since we know that apparently over 60% of druid players now choose circle of the moon (up from 25% in that infographic). It's almost become a class with one sub-class.

I'd wager that people really look at the Druid as a platform for Wildshape because of the power of the Moon Circle, and thus if you don't want that you don't play it.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think the overall real solution here is to make Shapeshifting its own class, and emphasize the Druid in another direction.

That's a great idea, but it's not going to happen because: Tradition. (And to a lesser, related extent, "backwards compatibility".)

Ok, lets say that now those are all fixed. Is the new "least played" class suddenly a flawed design?

Probably? I mean, they're ALL flawed in one way or another, aren't they? I get where you're going with this: Something is always going to be on the bottom, no matter how great everything is. Still it's a strange take (not saying you're doing this) to decide that things should stay the same level of flawed just because perfection can never be reached.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's a great idea, but it's not going to happen because: Tradition. (And to a lesser, related extent, "backwards compatibility".)


Probably? I mean, they're ALL flawed in one way or another, aren't they? I get where you're going with this: Something is always going to be on the bottom, no matter how great everything is. Still it's a strange take (not saying you're doing this) to decide that things should stay the same level of flawed just because perfection can never be reached.

I think its an equally strange take for WotC and it's current supporters to claim that the most important part of game design for the last few years and moving forward is how many "yes" votes any given widget gets on their over-long questionnaires only a small portion of the gaming public (and certainly not the part they want that isn't even playing yet) will ever complete.

 

[Clint_L]

We also need to take those rankings with a grain of salt, because it is hard to know how to interpret them. For example, do they suggest that fighters are severely broken and need to be nerfed? Because they are significantly more popular than the second place class. And would anyone rate fighter, rogue, warlock as the best three classes in the game?

Edit: possibly the easiest three, though, which maybe speaks to WotC's reasoning...

 

[Emberashh]

Probably? I mean, they're ALL flawed in one way or another, aren't they? I get where you're going with this: Something is always going to be on the bottom, no matter how great everything is. Still it's a strange take (not saying you're doing this) to decide that things should stay the same level of flawed just because perfection can never be reached.

Its more to do with the decided illogic of saying that something being the least played means theres a design flaw.

 

[mellored]

would anyone rate fighter, rogue, warlock as the best three classes in the game?

Edit: possibly the easiest three, though, which maybe speaks to WotC's reasoning...

Paladin and Bards are generally considered the most powerful classes in the game.

Fighter is probably third, though champion is generally weaker.
Warlock is above average.
And rogue is probably about average.

 

[Gorck]

We also need to take those rankings with a grain of salt, because it is hard to know how to interpret them. For example, do they suggest that fighters are severely broken and need to be nerfed? Because they are significantly more popular than the second place class. And would anyone rate fighter, rogue, warlock as the best three classes in the game?

Edit: possibly the easiest three, though, which maybe speaks to WotC's reasoning...

Which is ironic given that, over in the fighter brainstorm thread, people were saying that the Fighter is utterly boring and the most complained about class.

 

[mellored]

Which is ironic given that, over in the fighter brainstorm thread, people were saying that the Fighter is utterly boring and the most complained about class.

Keep in mind, people on the forums tend to represent more advanced players. Casual or busy players are doing other things (like raising kids).

And more advanced players would be bored with simple classes.

 

[Minigiant]

That's kind of interesting data. It's from 6 years ago, but apparently druid is still the least played class. I note that Crawford speculated that complexity could be part of the reason, but it's a bit hard to say. I think another issue could well be intra-class balance, since we know that apparently over 60% of druid players now choose circle of the moon (up from 25% in that infographic). It's almost become a class with one sub-class.

I'd wager that people really look at the Druid as a platform for Wildshape because of the power of the Moon Circle, and thus if you don't want that you don't play it.

This is the second half of what I'm saying.

Flavorwise, the Druid is kida niche because Wildshape sucks up some much of its imagery. The D&D movie trailers push the druid as a shapeshifter and barely as a caster if a all. So in theory you are supposed to be able to run a Shaman, Fey-Priest, Tribal Healer, or Witch Doctor with the Druid... if your PC isn't built around Wildshape you are better off with a cleric, warlock, wizard, or something.

Especially if Wildshape is to much for you.

We also need to take those rankings with a grain of salt, because it is hard to know how to interpret them. For example, do they suggest that fighters are severely broken and need to be nerfed? Because they are significantly more popular than the second place class. And would anyone rate fighter, rogue, warlock as the best three classes in the game?

Edit: possibly the easiest three, though, which maybe speaks to WotC's reasoning...

The Fighter and Rogue combined represent most nonmagical character concepts in fantasy and mythological fiction.

It's opposite ends of the spectrum.
The Fighter and Rogue were designed to cover a couple dozen of PC concepts and is mechanically sparse to not unwanted mechanics that would not match any concept .

The 5e Druid was designed to fill 3-6 concepts and has the mechanics and features of all 3-6 as core.