D&D (2024) Developer Video on Druid/Paladin/Expert Feedback



WotC has posted a video discussing initial feedback on the One D&D Druid/Paladin playtest, along with survey results from the Expert playtest. Some highlights for discussion:

Druid: The developers recognize that the template version of wild shape is contentious. If they retain this approach, they would plan to add flexibility to those templates. If they revert to monster stat blocks, they might allow Druids to choose a limited number of options, with a default selection provided.

Paladin: The new version of smite is still intended to work with critical hits. If ranged smite persists, its damage may be adjusted through the internal balance/playtesting process.

Ranger: The updated Ranger scored very well in the playtest. Some players did miss the choice of options in the Hunter subclass.

Bard: All of the Lore Bard's features scored welll, but the overall subclass rating was mediocre. They attribute this to the loss of Additional Magical Secrets, which many saw as the key attraction of this subclass.

Rogue: The change to limit sneak attack to the Rogue's own turn scored poorly. The developers generally like moving actions to a player's own turn to keep the game moving quickly, but in this case, the change doesn't seem to be worth the loss of tactical flexibility.

Feats: With the exception of epic boons, all the feats in the Expert packet scored well. The developers are still loking at written feedback for fine tuning.

Conspicuously not mentioned were the Arcane/Divine/Primal spell lists, which were the focus of a lot of discussion during the Bard playtest.
 
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mamba

Legend
And again, why doesn’t every company do what WotC is doing, if it's such a good business decision?
Because not all can manage to. A few years back WoW was a huge success, so everyone was creating MMOs to cash in on this. Turns out there is not an infinite market for this and most lost money while WoW stayed by far the biggest MMO.

The others that wanted to find some level of success needed to differentiate themselves from WoW to find an audience, because if you have the option to play WoW with its 10M players or something identical with maybe 50k players, you are better off playing WoW.

That reminds me a lot of the TTRPG market.
 


Remathilis

Legend
It certainly cost me. I no longer wish to buy any of their products, and I've been a loyal customer of WotC since they acquired the D&D license.
By your own admission, you have not been satisfied with WotC for a long while. Further, you claim you have found a superior alternative in Level Up. This makes you sound like the guy who can't get over the fact they were dumped by their Ex despite being in a new relationship with someone else...
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
By your own admission, you have not been satisfied with WotC for a long while. Further, you claim you have found a superior alternative in Level Up. This makes you sound like the guy who can't get over the fact they were dumped by their Ex despite being in a new relationship with someone else...
My new SO, despite being miles and miles more to my taste than what my ex has become, doesn't have access to my ex's setting material, and they won't release it to the DMsGuild for others to use.

The metaphor got a little weird at the end.
 

Remathilis

Legend
My new SO, despite being miles and miles more to my taste than what my ex has become, doesn't have access to my ex's setting material, and they won't release it to the DMsGuild for others to use.

The metaphor got a little weird at the end.
My ex made the world's greatest Italian dinners, but she won't cook for me anymore and she won't give me the recipes.
 


FitzTheRuke

Legend
Yeah, I do not see hyperbole as "basic part of communication," at least not in the way that it is used in this forum most of the time.

Hyperbole can be used constructively for poetic effect or irony, but that is not what generally happens in these threads. Instead it is almost always used destructively, for sarcasm, mockery, and building various logical fallacies, such as straw man arguments, black and white arguments, and slippery slope arguments.

So I am often very much not okay with hyperbole on forum threads. It is usually being applied as a weapon. And it often makes me question whether a poster is worth engaging with, since a nuanced and constructive discussion is unlikely to ensue.

There's something about social media that makes everyone oversensitive. I think it's entirely to do with communicating in writing (and that most people aren't very good at it). Professional writers sometimes struggle to get a character's feelings across. I can't see why we'd expect anyone to correctly express their thoughts and feelings in text. On top of THAT, we then expect everyone to correctly READ those thoughts and feelings without making any mistakes in their inference.

If I said, "I hate the Druid with the passion of a thousand exploding suns", when face-to-face, you'd probably get that I was kidding about the suns, but might be serious that I don't like the Druid, but here we'd probably get into an argument about exactly how many suns are allowed to explode to rank what level of passion.

You and I differ on this only in a matter of mild degree. I wish everyone was more charitable to each other, too. But I think that the only way to achieve the kind of charity that I'd like to see out of posters is to be extra charitable myself to the ones who are failing to be charitable to others. Does that make any sense?

At any rate, when it comes to hyperbole, I feel like the first step is generally to acknowledge it for what it is: An exaggeration not meant to be taken literally. The "not meant" part is key. If you give people the benefit that they didn't mean what they said to be taken literally, you wind up in a lot less arguments. (Generally. Arguments are hard to avoid on here.)
 


Clint_L

Hero
There's something about social media that makes everyone oversensitive. I think it's entirely to do with communicating in writing (and that most people aren't very good at it). Professional writers sometimes struggle to get a character's feelings across. I can't see why we'd expect anyone to correctly express their thoughts and feelings in text. On top of THAT, we then expect everyone to correctly READ those thoughts and feelings without making any mistakes in their inference.

If I said, "I hate the Druid with the passion of a thousand exploding suns", when face-to-face, you'd probably get that I was kidding about the suns, but might be serious that I don't like the Druid, but here we'd probably get into an argument about exactly how many suns are allowed to explode to rank what level of passion.

You and I differ on this only in a matter of mild degree. I wish everyone was more charitable to each other, too. But I think that the only way to achieve the kind of charity that I'd like to see out of posters is to be extra charitable myself to the ones who are failing to be charitable to others. Does that make any sense?

At any rate, when it comes to hyperbole, I feel like the first step is generally to acknowledge it for what it is: An exaggeration not meant to be taken literally. The "not meant" part is key. If you give people the benefit that they didn't mean what they said to be taken literally, you wind up in a lot less arguments. (Generally. Arguments are hard to avoid on here.)
I agree that it can be difficult to read intent. I think that you are being more generous than me. I see a lot of the hyperbole here as coming from a place of aggression, of being more interested in scoring points than having a meaningful discussion. Given that this is a forum that WotC actually acknowledges, I find it more useful to put those posters on ignore rather than get caught up in a futile argument. I don't have your patience.

This thread, for example, is now being dominated by posters who seem to have little interest OneD&D being successful within the parameters described by WotC and come across as more intent on just discrediting the game.

Getting back to the video at hand, I think a few things are clear, namely that WotC does perceive paladin as largely solved, so we aren't going to see any radical proposals there, but WotC perceive druid as a problem class, so we can expect continued exploration of that design space, with the caveat that wild shape in some form will remain integral to druids.

The template proposal in its current form went over like a lead balloon, but I am interested to see if WotC remain attached to the principle but decide to drastically change the execution, or retreat and go back to using existing creature stat blocks but within some sort of new system.

What I would like to see is:

1. A more constrained/defined version of the current wild shape mechanics. I started out okay with templates, but the more we have discussed them, the more they have come to resemble a Frankenstein's monster idea to me, both in the sense of being a bunch of different parts sewn together, and in the sense of getting out of hand and turning druid shapeshifting into something else entirely.

2. Better balance for moon druids, which can come from 1.

3. Making elemental forms their own thing, definitely not a baseline druid feature, and here is where I would love to see a new, elemental sub-class added to the updated PHB because I think that there is a lot of fun potential.
 

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