Dexterity Error in PHB - in my view.

[Istar]

There was some criticism of me, when I first started playing 4e, as I asked a silly question about Dexterity.

I asked if Dexterity assisted with Initiative rolls.

This was brought to my attention recently.
I would therefore like to advise that the PHB does have an error in it, in my view.

As they have not included this in the list of benefits for Dexterity, there is no mention that it aids your Initiative roll.

I know its under Initiative, but being new to 4e I was weighing up the pros and cons to what stats I should have, and I think fairly that this should be included.

 

[Gradine]

They might have included it in the ability score section; true. Your Dex modifier is clearly labeled on the provided character sheet, however, which is in turn provided right at the end of chapter 2. True, it is never explicitly stated in the rulebook until you get to the section on Initiative.

Of course, everything I have said above is exactly the same as it was in 3.5. Modifying initiative was lacking under the description of Dexterity in that manual as well. Neither book mentions it until their respective sections on Initiative in their respective chapters on combat. In fact, both editions explicitly refer to the Initiative roll as a Dexterity check.

Again, I suppose this could be considered an oversight, but it is a minor one at that, and one that hasn't been explicitly mentioned in a PHB since 2nd edition, in the days when it was referred to as Reaction Adjustment and if you were new you still had to dig through the combat section to figure out that meant an adjustment to your initiative roll.*

Ultimately, this is a minor omission at best and one not at all unique to 4e.

*EDIT: I actually double-checked the AD&D 2e manual** and found that the section for Dexterity does say that your Reaction Adjustment affects your initiative roll. It doesn't say how it does it, though; I was shocked to find the Reaction Adjustment was a positive number and had to look up the Initiative heading to be reminded that you had to subtract your Reaction Adjustment (it actually just says dexterity modifier, which is confusing enough on its own. Ahhhh, AD&D).

**In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that my old TSR Core Rules disc doesn't jive with Vista, so I had to use the next best thing: the Hackmaster PHB; which is essentially the same thing only with a joke at the end about how hard it is to get funny pictures of a high dex character at a surprise party.

 

[doctorhook]

I think this "error" of omission is pretty minor. When choosing your ability scores, initiative isn't/shouldn't be your primary concern; your initiative modifier won't make or break your character (although it's very handy). Plus, initiative is literally the first rule explained in the combat chapter of the Player's Handbook, which is appropriate given that rolling initiative is the first thing that happens in every combat.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think this "error" of omission is pretty minor. When choosing your ability scores, initiative isn't/shouldn't be your primary concern; your initiative modifier won't make or break your character (although it's very handy). Plus, initiative is literally the first rule explained in the combat chapter of the Player's Handbook, which is appropriate given that rolling initiative is the first thing that happens in every combat.

Well, they could have mentioned it in the section on ability scores. There are certain classes (wizard being the most obvious example) that can REALLY benefit a lot from a high init modifier, yet its not at all obvious that this is true and most players are unlikely to invest in dex unless they know this. Of course you can always drop a feat on Improved Initiative and often that's a better choice anyway but I do find it odd that the whole thing isn't even mentioned. I kind of suspect a lot of the 4e PHB started life as a hack of the 3.5 PHB and some things like that just carried over from early drafts into the final text.

 

[chitzk0i]

Well, they could have mentioned it in the section on ability scores. There are certain classes (wizard being the most obvious example) that can REALLY benefit a lot from a high init modifier, yet its not at all obvious that this is true and most players are unlikely to invest in dex unless they know this.

Well, if you look at any character sheet (including the example on PH page 30), you'll find that it says Dex next to initiative. Page 30's summary of initiative also refers you to page 267, where it tells you to add your Dex. So anyone making a character with a character sheet and anyone who read the tutorial section of the PHB will know that. That is a pretty major benefit, though, so it would make sense to find it there.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, if you look at any character sheet (including the example on PH page 30), you'll find that it says Dex next to initiative. Page 30's summary of initiative also refers you to page 267, where it tells you to add your Dex. So anyone making a character with a character sheet and anyone who read the tutorial section of the PHB will know that. That is a pretty major benefit, though, so it would make sense to find it there.

Oh, I agree, its not exactly a secret or anything. Eh, anyway, the PHB is pretty good overall about explaining the various implications of ability scores. You do have to go over the character sheet and the actual numbers a bit though to make sure you understand everything. In any case the vast majority of characters really don't get much out of a high init modifier, or they're already going to be high dex anyway, like rogues.

 

[fanboy2000]

I know its under Initiative, but being new to 4e I was weighing up the pros and cons to what stats I should have, and I think fairly that this should be included.

I agree. I think this is symptomatic of the larger issue that the 4e PHB doesn't do as good a job or organizing rules for new players as it should. (Neither, did 3e or 3.5 PHBs.)

 

[Istar]

I should mention that I think the PHB's are fantastic, this is just my defence, for being ridiculed by a poster on the weekend, thats all.

Just odd they dont put it in there thats all.

 

[doctorhook]

Well, they could have mentioned it in the section on ability scores. There are certain classes (wizard being the most obvious example) that can REALLY benefit a lot from a high init modifier, yet its not at all obvious that this is true and most players are unlikely to invest in dex unless they know this. Of course you can always drop a feat on Improved Initiative and often that's a better choice anyway but I do find it odd that the whole thing isn't even mentioned. I kind of suspect a lot of the 4e PHB started life as a hack of the 3.5 PHB and some things like that just carried over from early drafts into the final text.

I agree that they could have and probably should have mentioned initiative. Overall though, I'm not convinced this is a big deal (not that I'm sure anyone here is actually claiming that it is); any new player who adequately reads and familiarizes themselves with the important parts of the Player's Handbook is going to figure it out by the time they fill out their character sheet anyway. Incidentally, I think you're probably correct about how the first draft of the PH came to be.

As an aside, I realise that initiative is very handy (especially for some classes), but is it really such a major thing overall? I mean, after the first round is over, does it really matter what your initiative count is? Obviously going first in the encounter is great, but after that, it hardly matters, doesn't it? If you disagree, please feel free to correct me. For now, I personally can't see initiative as ever being more than a second-tier priority for a character, given that 4E is generally NOT lethal within the first round of combat.

 

[Budalic]

As an aside, I realise that initiative is very handy (especially for some classes), but is it really such a major thing overall? I mean, after the first round is over, does it really matter what your initiative count is? Obviously going first in the encounter is great, but after that, it hardly matters, doesn't it? If you disagree, please feel free to correct me. For now, I personally can't see initiative as ever being more than a second-tier priority for a character, given that 4E is generally NOT lethal within the first round of combat.

Well, killing a monster before it had its third action is better than if you kill it after it had its third action. So, yes, it's important for entire combat.

But the dex adjustment is fairly minor, so con is better stat for leftover points. Generally, you first raise primary/secondary stats, then look at feat requirements, then look at con, then dex, and dump str, int or cha (or wis in some special cases). Best stat array for most classes is 18/14/11/10/10/8 anyway.