Diagonals revisited

[Derren]

WTF does "Iä! Iä! Diagonal Ftagn!" mean????

A reference to Cthulhu as a world with 1-1-1 geometry would be so twisted, alien and incomprehendable by humans that it would only fit in a Lovecraft horror story.

 

[Wormwood]

Good on you for thinking things out and coming to a different conclusion based on your thoughts. Not everyone does that often.

This is the Internet.

Nobody does that.

 

[Aus_Snow]

It's simply one more step towards D&D: The Boardgame, the multimedial tactical online-tabletop-dungeoncrawl battlegame.

I would hate any 'battlegame' / wargame / whatever, whose rules tried to suggest that ~1.4 should further be approximated, more appropriately, as 1.0 than as 1.5. . . personally, anyway.

So yes, count me in as 'opposed to this idea', I guess. Just another thing for the list, really. No, there isn't actually a list.

I started out (before any details were released) being essentially disinterested in yet another D&D, what with 3e (plus additional, including extensive 3rd-party, material) still working precisely as well as it did before the announcement, albeit with a few (IMO) necessary tweaks. And I said as much, then. Even so, I have kept quite an open mind to whatever has come out about the game.

I wasn't even imagining at any time that it would be nearly as awful as it's turning out - I don't really get it, why they're making such a mess of D&D. 1-1-1-1 is one of the more recent additions to the reasons why I see it that way now.

And yes, I know some of you don't see it even remotely the same way. That's cool awesome - whatever works for you.

 

[Wolfspider]

My calculation can be represented by:

NetValue(x) = AddedValue(x)/Complexity(x)

AddedValue('1-1-1-1') = 0. Complexity('1-1-1-1') = 1.

NetValue('1-1-1-1') = 0/1 = 0

Ahh, a Hybrid player I see!

 

[BryonD]

3) Like everything else in the game, movement is abstract. Applying an absolute movement scheme in a game where everything else is abstract is a bigger anomaly than perceived 'diagonal acceleration.'
4) Distance per time arguments hold no merit when all the other movements are factored in. Shifts, slides, pushes, pulls, and places--all additional movement that can happen during or out of turn--destroy this concept. By the time a model moves on its own, it pushed by A, pulled by B, slid by C, and placed by D, greater rifts to the Far Realms have been opened than the one caused by 2 'extra' squares when traveling purely diagonal. And I'm fine with all of those, would never question them, so I can't be concerned by the diagonal.

By this reasoning it is completely pointless to have dwarves and halflings have a slower movement than elves and humans. After all, the magnitude of the difference is less for racial difference than for wrong math diagonals. (A dwarf running along a diagonal is faster than a human running with the grid.) All the issues and abstractions you list cause the racial difference to become irrelevant by a wider margin than they do 1/1/1/1.

5) I looked at many other respected games that use squares and many of them use 1:1 diagonals. Most notable for me was Descent: Journeys in the Dark by FFG. 1:1 works fine for them.

And here you do win.
I know openly admit that *for 4E* 1/1/1/1 is the correct way to go.
For the people who want their D&D to be like Descent, THIS is the edition for you.

And now that I have agreed to this truth, there is no further need for my involvement in this thread.

 

[hong]

By this reasoning it is completely pointless to have dwarves and halflings have a slower movement than elves and humans. After all, the magnitude of the difference is less for racial difference than for wrong math diagonals.

What?

(A dwarf running along a diagonal is faster than a human running with the grid.)

A dwarf running along the diagonal is moving at the rate of N squares/turn. A human running with the grid is moving at N squares/turn. They work out to the same thing.

All the issues and abstractions you list cause the racial difference to become irrelevant by a wider margin than they do 1/1/1/1.

The racial difference remains the same in terms of squares per turn.

And now that I have agreed to this truth, there is no further need for my involvement in this thread.

... see you in 15 minutes, then?

 

[Celebrim]

Ahh, a Hybrid player I see!

Player?

 

[ThirdWizard]

D&D 4e Movement as electron clouds, or in this case "Character Clouds?"

I'll begin working on my Heisenberg Uncertainty Stabbity Principle where if you stab something you can deal damage to it, but by doing so you can no longer pinpoint its exact location and have to roll a d20 to find it. I shall call this an "attack roll." Nobel Prize, here I come!

 

[hong]

D&D 4e Movement as electron clouds, or in this case "Character Clouds?"

I'll begin working on my Heisenberg Uncertainty Stabbity Principle where if you stab something you can deal damage to it, but by doing so you can no longer pinpoint its exact location and have to roll a d20 to find it. I shall call this an "attack roll." Nobel Prize, here I come!

D&D movement and position is uncertain even in 3E. Try locating the rider on the 10' square horse, for example....

 

[Jdvn1]

11 is how it was originally done, for those of you into classic versions of wargaming and such.

Y'know, chess.