Did I screw up? (fighter feat selction)

[dead_radish]

To go back to the original point - Yes, you're going to do less damage.

Two weapon fighting really hoses you on damage potential if you go straight fighter. You hit less often, do less damage with each hit (compared to two-handing), and have to spend lots of extra feats.

Honestly, what you need to do it take 1-3 levels of rogue. I know, it's odd, but that gives you +1d6 or +2d6 damage when you flank. With two weapon fighting, you have to have large enough bonuses to your damage that the extra attack does more than a single two handed attack would. And start using your attacks to sunder, trip, disarm, etc - that's another benefit. If you're getting magicked, try for greater magic weapons or bull's strength. And try to get flaming or the like on your weapons.

Check out this page for a huge breakdown of how to make twf effective:
http://homepage.mac.com/guyf/DnD/AttackingWithTwoWeapons.html

 

[celtonline]

Thanks, radish. That's an excellent analysis of two weapon fighting. *bookmarks*

As for embracing the damage sponge, jonrog... I accepted the frontline position when I made the fighter of the group. I'm fine with taking most of the damage, it just seems to me that I've been taking an inordinate amount, more and more so. At this point I'm taking most of my hit points in one to three rounds and have to suck down potions or have the cleric use their action to heal me just to keep up. It's a drain on resources either way.

Really, it's not my expectation that all feats be made equal. It's just that my GM has talked about fighters as the kings of combat because of their specialization towards war. This is supposed to be the trade off for low skill points available and limited skill variety. Well, I'm just not seeing it.

As I said I'm probably getting a false picture because of types of foes/encounters and lack of gear. None of the fighter's invisible strengths are coming into play such as opportunities for Attacks of Opportunity, endurance over the long run as the mage's and cleric's spells and ranger's arrows run out, increased ability to take damage due to (supposedly) access to higher grades of armor.

Emongnome, Improved Rapid Shot removes the -2 penalty for each shot used during Rapid Shot. This means that the ranger currently gets two attacks at his full attack bonus and a third at -5. There is no feat that does the same for fighters so attacking two weapons I am at -2/-2 on the two weapon attack and -7 on the second attack. I may invent just such a feat.

I'll no doubt point this thread at my GM and ask for his thoughts.

 

[Gaiden]

A couple of points

1.) there is a vast disparity between value of magical items between you and the archer.

2.) Your feat selection is fine - I don't know what your Chr is but it may be worth it to take a level of cleric and take divine shield feat. - this will give you a bonus to AC as well as attack/damage

3.) get your cleric to cast shield other on you - this effectively doubles your HP - one of the most powerful spells in the game (just have to keep in mind the range)

4.) Embrace the damage sponge - but as a result fight to maximize your potential - get endurance cast on you, you might want to consider dragon's toughness as a feat, EXPERTISE EXPERTISE EXPERTISE, fight defensively all the time - if your purpose is to be the dwarven shield for your party, shoot for dwarven defender, may want to consider taking a level of barbarian for the added con bonus - alternatively -see if anyone in the party can cast rage (the spell - does not cause the AC penalty)

5.) at all times have MV on your shield and armor (cast from the cleric) - the +6 total AC bonus will be more than worth it

6.) get your cleric to give you the a few spells (the fourth level spell - forget name) and take shield if faith, protection from evil, and divine favor

7.) if possible have GMW on your axe (and shield) and have BS on you.

You would be using something like 11 or 12 of the cleric's spells

The cleric can then sit back casting hold person's or some such from a distance spontaneously casting cure spells on himself when his hit points get low (from shield other), meanwhile, your archer friend will dish out the damage from safety.

Your character concept will not benefit from multiple low powered enemies nor one big baddie with a low AC - you should simply ready actions to attack the first thing that comes your way. If its a high powered enemy - go all defense - fighting defensively, full expertise if you have it, and simply be a block in the way of your opponent - again - highly recommend dwarven defender.

Your character also does not benefit from any sort of mobility on the battlefield (another reason for the DD PrC). As a result, you may want to pick up something like hold the line, or close quarters combat.

I would recommend just scrapping the WS-Shieldbash as you will probably want to focus on defense more often than offense. Also, the IC-DWA may be useful but if you want to capatilize on working well with your party I would recommend a more defensive oriented feat.

 

[Thanee]

As I said I'm probably getting a false picture because of types of foes/encounters and lack of gear.

Yes, that is most probably the case. However, unless the DM does a good job at balancing encounters and making them a little tougher for the ranged experts and spellcasters, the fighter is at a disadvantage usually, which is probably what you are experiencing.

I'll no doubt point this thread at my GM and ask for his thoughts.

Good idea!

I basically agree with Gaiden, that you should talk your party into spending CONSIDERABLE resources to enhance your fighting (and staying) power! You are the wall they hide behind, so it should be their responsibility to enhance your ability instead of being selfish and getting all the nice buffs only for themselves! Especially the cleris has so much to give to a fighter!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mistwell]

Exactly. PHB Ranger 1/Monte Ranger 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 6 at level 9. (One of the reasons I think Monte's Ranger is broken).

Okay, now you are being silly.

The Monte Ranger is an ALTERNATIVE Ranger class. If you are going to play with it, you are supposed to REPLACE the Ranger class in your game with the Monte Ranger. It isn't just a different class from Player's Handbook Ranger called the Monte Ranger. You play with either the PHB Ranger OR the Monte Ranger. You can't take levels in both PHB Ranger and Monte Ranger with the same character. That's just silly!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Improved Rapid Shot removes the -2 penalty for each shot used during Rapid Shot. This means that the ranger currently gets two attacks at his full attack bonus and a third at -5. There is no feat that does the same for fighters so attacking two weapons I am at -2/-2 on the two weapon attack and -7 on the second attack. I may invent just such a feat.

This feat is so broken. It gives you a +2 Bonus to all your ranged attacks, since you always use rapid shot then. It's twice as effective as weapon focus, and applies to more weapons, not just one. I'd ban it outright.

But since it's in already, the damage's done. But the DM surely won't refuse you taking the feat Improved Ambidexterity.

Improved Ambidexterity [General, Fighter]
Prerequisites: Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefit: Your penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by 2. This stacks with Two-Weapon Fighting.
Normal: See Attacking woth Two Weapons, page 124, and Table 8-2: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties, page 125, in the Player's Handbook
Special: This eliminates all penalties when fighting with a light weapon in the off-hand.

 

[Thanee]

Isn't a feat like this in the ELH?

It's probably an epic feat, tho. Improved Rapid Shot should also be an epic feat, that would be ok!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Endur]

Dwarven Defense

Hi,

I've played a Dwarven character for the last year and a half in 3e.

Some comments:

I think the feat selection is fine. Great in fact.


My suggestions:

1. I would make the next two feats: Improved Critical Dwarven Waraxe and Power Critical Dwarven Waraxe.

Power Critical (MOTW) is a feat that archers can't get and its an awesome feat in melee. Automatic critical hit once a day. Great for an axe weapon (x3 damage). Your critical can potentially do 50+ points of damage (see below).

2. Acquire better equipment. Get Full Plate as soon as possible. If you can get Dwarven Plate (Mithril Full Plate), even better.

3. Get the cleric to cast Magic Vestment on your Armor and your Shield. If the cleric is 9th level, this will add +6 to your armor class. You'd be amazed at how much the damage goes down when your ac is higher. This combo will last 9 hours, so that should be your day of activity. If there is time before a combat, get the cleric to cast Shield of Faith to add another +3 to your AC.
A few clerical spells cast before the combat can result in your not having to have any healing spells cast during an adventure. Shield of Faith also helps against Grapples and touch attacks.

4. Get the cleric to help you out on offense by casting Bulls Strength every day (this is a must spell, especially in a low magic campaign where Girdles of Giant Strength are not available). Again, it should last 9 hours if the cleric is 9th level.

5. When available, get a Greater Magic Weapon from your cleric (changing your +1 axe to a +3 axe for 9 hours).

The nice part about Bulls Strength and GMW is that it increases your chance to hit, increases your damage, and also helps you against any special attack forms the monsters have (grapple, disarm, etc.)

6. If you've gone this far as a straight classed dwarven fighter, I wouldn't change now. There are a lot of cool fighter feats you still don't have, so I'd stick with pure fighter.

7. Dwarven Defender is a neat prestige class, but it requires three feats you don't have (dodge, toughness, endurance), so you wouldn't be able to enter it for several levels. But you might think about it. The big drawback, of course, is that you don't get any more bonus feats if you join Dwarven Defender, whereas a fighter gets an extra feat every other level.

8. Last comment -- don't think about it as a competition. The archer will often do more damage than the melee fighter. But the melee fighter can always use his melee weapon. There will be many circumstances where the archer won't be able to use his bow (under water, can't see, high winds, etc.).

9. Lastly, I wouldn't charge the enemy. Let the enemy charge you. You have lots of hit points, you can let them swing first. And then, after they swing, hit the enemy with a full attack. With all of your attacks, you should inflict enough damage to make them regret that they charged you.

Tom

 

[celtonline]

Once again thanks for the input all. The cleric has cast GMW & MV on me as well as on the archer's arrows. Pleasxe bear in mind that you're only hearing part of the situation. I had intended to mainly keep this on my feat selection, just asking was it viable, and wanted to leave other elements out. I have put in good hits, sometimes at crucial times. I suppose i was feeling more insecure about the amount of damage I was taking rather than how much damage I was doing.

I'm feeling much more confident about the character. We've only just become ninth level after a very rapid trip through 7th and 8th. The archer just received the +2 longsowrd and the +2 studded leather. There's things I could have done to change things, some alternate feat selections, fighting more defensively, taking Expertise, etc. I will keep all your suggestions in mind.

I'd suggest a group hug but dwarves don't do that.

 

[celtonline]

oopsie