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D&D 5E Did The Finished 5th Edition Change Anyone's Mind?

OSR phenomenon is strictly connected with the success of 5th edition.
I strongly believe that OSR phenomenon originates from the need of detailed campaign settings. 5th is succeding in giving players the flavour of old dnd rules, but the AP only way that is following core publications risks to invalidate the effort and leave WOTC with a low number of 5th players and huge sellings of DND classic pdf...

As usual excuse my bad english... hope it's clear what i'm saying.
 

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5e won me over gradually during the playtesting. Although one playtest (Next to last one? Don't have my playtest materials anymore.) was weird and felt like a step backwards.

I guess people wanted their favourite game re-sold to them, and WotC picked up on that.

5e was a chance to take the best of the previous editions and merge them into something new, with 3.5 as the base. I think it gave them the chance to "fix" some of the weak places in 3.5 in a way Pathfinder couldn't, because it was a fresh start without the restrictions of being tied to an existing edtion. I think you did pick up on another selling point though, and that is the nostalgia factor. OSR, conversions, etc. Tapping into that was a natural move. It was a business move in the sense that it was a response to an emerging trend.
 

Nostalgia is an irrational attachment to something because it's old, like Death Ray saving throws.

5e sold on a rational attachment to a game people played and that game worked for them.

Different thing.
 


I downloaded the first playtest packet but never ran it since I realized the rules would be in constant flux and I didn't want to deal with that plus I was running DCC rpg and 13th Age. I will say that after the disappointment that was 4e, I was more than a little pessimistic about how 5e would turn out... However I always buy the core 3 of every editiopon I've been around for and so I bought the 5e core as well...and I can honestly say me and my players have really taken to 5e... don't get me wrong for my more narrative D&D itch I'd probably use 13th Age (which after a few tweaks I like much better then 4e for the "4e feel") and for a retro-feeling D&D experience I use the DCC rpg which I both still enjoy but our main D&D game is now 5e.
 

Nostalgia is an irrational attachment to something because it's old, like Death Ray saving throws.

5e sold on a rational attachment to a game people played and that game worked for them.

Different thing.
Or the same thing spun different ways. There's nothing negative or wrong about being nostalgic, and 5e plays towards grognard AD&D nostalgia /very/ well, indeed. When I run 5e, it's like I'm running AD&D again - the many technical differences in the rules notwithstanding. It neatly captures feel of classic D&D (for me 1e, for others, I'm sure 2e), and it does enforce the importance of the DM to a successful campaign that was the norm in that era. If I take a step back and look at the mechanics, they're vaguely modernized but still suffer from being simultaneously vague/incomplete/imbalanced yet also baroque & needlessly complex. It's not coincidence that 'baroque' is also an artistic style that can be appreciated. The arguable flaws of the game are part of what make it distinctively D&D, it's not irrational to enjoy the game in spite of, or even with the aid of, those 'flaws.' There's nothing particularly rational about enjoying RPGs in the first place.

The only time you need to rationalize liking or disliking a game is when you're trying to persuade others to agree with you and thus embrace/reject the game before they form their own opinions of it. Hopefully we can avoid that sort of thing this time around.



TL/DR: We don't need a 'rational' reason to like a game. Having a blast with it is more than enough.
 

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The only time you need to rationalize liking or disliking a game is when you're trying to persuade others to agree with you and thus embrace/reject the game before they form their own opinions of it. Hopefully we can avoid that sort of thing this time around.

TL/DR: We don't need a 'rational' reason to like a game. Having a blast with it is more than enough.

Incorrect.

I am not saying "this is rational therefore you should like it". That is a stupid thing to say and I would never say that.

I am saying there is a difference between
"Oh man, group initiative makes it feel like ol' fashioned Deee ennn Deee! And that's funnnnnn" (Nostalgia) "

and

"Group initiative, whether you've ever used it or not, produces the following game effect at many game tables because of how it works:

The players come around a corner and there's a bunch of goblins about to eat a baby. It's time to fight. Who goes first?

The most realistic way to do it is, of course, everybody rolls individually to see who goes when, or friend and foe both go in dexterity order, or something like that. In the old D&D rules, however, the players roll a die, the dungeon master rolls a die, and the highest side goes first--the whole side.

Obviously this makes things simpler--the DM doesn't have to keep track of the initiative rolls for eight different goblins interleaved with however many players, but I like the one-roll-per-side thing for another reason:

When you play a game, it's chaos. This dwarf guy is fiddling with his miniature, the wizard is checking through her spells, the barbarian is answering a text from her boyfriend, the cleric is worried about being down to one hit point, and the elf is thinking about whether to order pizza--if you've ever DMed you know how it is. You can be describing the most bizarre, epic vista or the goriest critical hit and there's still a chance everybody's off in their own little world.

But then you say "Ok, initiative--the dragon rolled a 4, what about you guys?". Then suddenly everyone at the table looks up, they hand the d6 to somebody--"Ok, you roll it"--and they all gather around this person and get absorbed in that one bouncing die--because if it's a 6 they get to do stuff, and if it's a 3, they get to get eaten by a dragon. And they all would rather do stuff then get eaten.

And in that moment of shared anticipation, they are all a team. The players maybe drove here separately in separate cars, they may drive home separately, they probably made their characters separately and their characters may die separately and from separate causes and they all have separate distractions or worries, and the players may not even know each other, but in that little moment they are all together, and they all realize they are playing a game about teamwork and all relying on each other. And suddenly the wizard cares if the thief can backstab because that'll save him from having to run away and the dwarf cares that the cleric has a healing spell because if he does then he can use it right now and it's all happening at once and they're all paying attention to the same thing at the same time because they are all unified in their fear of impending death.

Which is fun for us.
"

In the first thing, like a food critic, you are describing the resemblance to another game as an element in your enjoyment.

In the second thing, you are describing things about the game design which can produce a desirable outcome even without that.

None of this is intended to persuade other people to play your way -- that practice is abhorrent and nobody should EVER do that unless they're trying to make money and admit it.

What it does is explain what one person's ideas and experience are to other people, which promotes understanding and respect between those people.
 


Hiya.

Seems I'm like a lot of others... didn't really like where the Next playtest was going. I pretty much gave up on them when Monty left, and seeing what they were doing (or not doing) during the last half year or year was less than encouraging.

Then the Starter Set came out. I ordered it "by accident" (my FLGS misinterpreted what I was asking for and ordered me one). I had about $30 in gift certificates from over a year or two ago (no time limit) so I figured what the hell? and grabbed it. Gave it a VERY quick look through, stuck it on my shelf for a month or two. One game day, half the players were going to run late by at least an hour...so I pulled it out and said "Lets give it a try while we're waiting?". I handed the pregens to them, each player picked one, and off we went. The rest, as they say, is history.

We were instantly hooked by how easy and "basic d&d" if felt in what was presented. No modifiers for a bajillion things, simple initiative, easy hp and AC tracking, movement was simple, no mention of AoO, movement reductions, feats, etc, etc, etc. Needless to say, it was a nice refreshing eye-opener from what I had read in the playtest as well as from what we were all expecting...a mish-mash of 3e, 4e, and PF crap.

I think it was two sessions after that one that I stopped our then-played Dominion Rules campaign and we started to play through the Starter Set. We all love the rules now and play it as our go-to D&D style game now...go figure! (before that, it was a Hackmaster4e/AD&D1e mix or Dark Dungeons [a BECMI/RC retro clone]).

I can easily state that 5e is one of my top 5 RPG systems of choice.

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

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