Disappointed by movement

[Carnivorous_Bean]

Actually, the new movement powers/ abilities are one of the things I really like. I like the idea of pushing people around, particularly with great blows. I like that fly is being replaced (as far as I can tell anyway) with short hops of teleportation. It'll add a challenging dynamic to the game that I'm looking forward to dealing with.

I'm not so thrilled about theoried or rumored powers that draw or pull enemies closer, but it's yet to be seen if those actually exist or not.

The push effects, however, really interest me. In any battle that I've ever watched or read about, there's always the point where the combat pushes the defender back under a hail of blows. Being able to actually do that in gameplay, and having the enemy (or my character for that matter) have to start getting worried about the cliff or river of fire behind me getting ever closer sounds pretty exciting to me, and far better than a Bull Rush only mechanic.

I agree. In fact, this happens in real-life melees, on a larger scale, where one side thrusts back the other, sometimes to the extreme disadvantage of those being pushed back -- for example, see "The Leap of the Mullet" in Hawaiin history, where King Kamehameha's spearmen backed an enemy tribe off a 600-foot cliff. Or the Battle of White Mountain in the 30 years war, where the Imperials backed their opponents ever more tightly against a series of walled orchards and gardens, removing their ability to maneuver and slaughtering them.

And in novels and movies, the protagonists rarely stand in one spot and slug -- it's a lot more exciting and interesting when one is on the retreat (or one, and then the other), and each tries to use the background to their advantage (throwing a chair under the feet of their opponent, for example).

It's also interesting that the kobold skirmisher, IIRC, gets a "mob bonus" or some such of +1 if there are other kobolds adjacent. If there are similar mechanics for other monsters, then breaking up the enemy's formation with push-backs may make excellent tactical sense when fighting groups -- and add more excitement to the scene as well.

I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Hussar]

Heck, the whole "push" mechanic would let me do that scene from 300.

There's a reason to play 4e if nothing else is.

 

[med stud]

The increased movement in combats is my #1 reason why I look forward to this edition. The static combats of most RPGs is one thing that has really jarred me. Now it looks like positioning and movement will be larger parts of combat than "move up to opponent - full attack".

I'm maybe deviant, but I like the fey step ability of the eladrin. I hate long range teleportation but I have always liked spells such as dimension door and items like cape of the mountebank (well they are the same thing, but still).

 

[Ahglock]

I suspect this is to go along with the dynamic battlefield suggestions. We know Mike Mearls loves to have things to interact with that aren't just monsters. So, pits and hazards and difficult terrain and cover and wacky fungal spores in the dungeon will make movement more significant than before.

I don't particularly care for things like this to be emphasized. I am not trying yo make a 4e is video game comment, just relating my experiences in video games with these types of encounters.

When playing games where I can throw mooks off of cliffs the game quickly fell away into an exercise in where is the cliff. Basically IMO unless things like this are used rarely you stop playing the game you bought and instead are playing some mini game. Ideas like this sound cool for cinematic combat but in the end of the day I want to be playing D&D, not to have my D&D experience overshadowed and hidden by the push the dude into the trap game.

 

[hong]

I don't particularly care for things like this to be emphasized. I am not trying yo make a 4e is video game comment, just relating my experiences in video games with these types of encounters.

When playing games where I can throw mooks off of cliffs the game quickly fell away into an exercise in where is the cliff. Basically IMO unless things like this are used rarely you stop playing the game you bought and instead are playing some mini game. Ideas like this sound cool for cinematic combat but in the end of the day I want to be playing D&D, not to have my D&D experience overshadowed and hidden by the push the dude into the trap game.

And what, exactly, is wrong with the "push the dude into the trap" game? Nearly every action movie I can think of features at least one fight where someone gets pushed into a trap. The only reason it seems strange and foreign for D&D is because 25+ years of I hit/you hit has cemented D&D fighting into its own funny little genre.

 

[Ahglock]

And what, exactly, is wrong with the "push the dude into the trap" game? Nearly every action movie I can think of features at least one fight where someone gets pushed into a trap. The only reason it seems strange and foreign for D&D is because 25+ years of I hit/you hit has cemented D&D fighting into its own funny little genre.

I don't mind the abilities existing and it happening in a fight scene here and there. But if too much emphasis is put on move the baddy abilities then the game becomes the move the baddy game and i don't want that.

 

[hong]

I don't mind the abilities existing and it happening in a fight scene here and there. But if too much emphasis is put on move the baddy abilities then the game becomes the move the baddy game and i don't want that.

Pish tosh. As long as people only die by losing hit points, the game will be about removing hit points.

 

[helium3]

*nod*

The increased ability to move, particularly SHORT range teleportation is a definite selling point in my opinion.

I didn't really understand how limited 3E combat was in that sense until I repeatedly used a battlemat I'd drawn up for Heavy Forest. I was astonished at how constrained the party was by the presence of heavy undergrowth.

So, anything that lets the party move around a little easier but also preserves a link between tactics and terrain is a good thing.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Yeah I really like it, some scenarios I already planned on using in my 4E game has just been amped up a ton with these new movement rules.

For example:

I planned on having my characters be chased on the roofs of a town by the Aboleth-controlled townspeople. I was just gonna have them do their running/balance checks and jump checks and ocassionaly have a encounter with a mob of people who got ahead of them. Now though that mob can be shoved aside by say the Fighter and allow the other PCs to run through.

That works incredibly well for that

Also is nice that minions have no HP, since I planned on having them cut down droves of the mob if they ever got surrounded, and have them deal with the fact that they are ordinary people just under control of a Aboleth. Yes I am evil

 

[Incenjucar]

D&D melee, up until now, has basically been a game of rock'em sock'em robots.

I welcome the movement with open arms, and right now I'm thinking the schticks of the two classes I'm working on to involve heavy use of movement, such as the defender who defends by knocking his opponents twenty feet away so he can kill their flanking bonus and focus on a single target.