D&D 5E (2014) Divine Smite CRITITAL HIT

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Fluff wise, paladins of vengeance (like all paladins other than oathbreakers) are still devoted to fighting against evil--they just often use neutral methods to do so. So a paladin of Bane wouldn't fit the concept well. That's just the official fluff, of course.

Fluff isnt rules, and the players handbook is written from a good/neutral perspective. However the Oath of Vengeance pretty much reads straight up evil... I dont actually think you can be a good paladin of Vengeance with it's focus on "ends justify the means" methods of killing a baby to stop a demon or what not. 4E was good in that it's "holy warriors" could be of any god, and there were powers to match. I ran a 4E game set in Golarion, and one of the PC's was a Chelish Hellknight Paladin. Worked great!

 

[Warmaster Horus]

i rule that a smiting is like a bunt in baseball and must be decided on before the attack. why would paladins get a free double damage crit prize when no one else can?

That ruling doesn't fit within the book rules which states that a smite is declared upon a successful hit ("when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack"). Lots of classes get after-the-fact damage add-ins. Battlemasters can invoke maneuvers (and hence extra damage dice) after a hit. Rangers can apply Colossus Slayer after a hit. Etc.

 

[Scorpio616]

It is only recently that I made a Paladin of Vengeance NPC to assist my players that I first realized the damage potential of a smite, especially on a crit. I'm curious, for those of you with experience in using these Paladins, do you see the smite breaking the game? (Say, the DM unleashed a powerful boss at the end story but only being brought down quickly with Paladin's smite.)

It's more potent than it ought to be IMHO, but I'm a very anti Nova type person. A definite design error not making smite a bonus action. It is mitigatable by keeping environments target rich. Fiends have flunkies, dragons have mates with young and the undead don't kill, they recruit.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

It's more potent than it ought to be IMHO, but I'm a very anti Nova type person. A definite design error not making smite a bonus action. It is mitigatable by keeping environments target rich. Fiends have flunkies, dragons have mates with young and the undead don't kill, they recruit.

It's definitely situational. I'll usually only trigger one on a crit and those can be very feast or famine. Otherwise I have to be pretty desperate to expend a slot as I like bless and misty step alot...

 

[Ristamar]

It is only recently that I made a Paladin of Vengeance NPC to assist my players that I first realized the damage potential of a smite, especially on a crit. I'm curious, for those of you with experience in using these Paladins, do you see the smite breaking the game? (Say, the DM unleashed a powerful boss at the end story but only being brought down quickly with Paladin's smite.)

It sounds powerful on paper, but in practice I don't think it's a big problem. Saving spell slots and waiting for a critical hit is kinda like playing slots with a small handful full of coins. You're usually going not going to hit a big jackpot. Sure, there is a chance you might get lucky and crit on your first or second attack when you happen to be targeting a "boss", but given that most fights tend to be relatively short and brutal, it's a risky and unreliable tactic.

 

[AwakenedShrub420]

That ruling doesn't fit within the book rules which states that a smite is declared upon a successful hit ("when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack"). Lots of classes get after-the-fact damage add-ins. Battlemasters can invoke maneuvers (and hence extra damage dice) after a hit. Rangers can apply Colossus Slayer after a hit. Etc.

i said it was my ruling, not the books. the OP already got several RAW answers. I was just adding my own opinion now that the thread has served its main purpose.

 

[Kalshane]

i said it was my ruling, not the books. the OP already got several RAW answers. I was just adding my own opinion now that the thread has served its main purpose.

Do you also require Battlemaster fighters to declare use a Superiority die before they make an attack or dual-wielding rogues to declare which of their two weapon attacks is eligible for sneak attacks? Because both those classes (and the paladin) were balanced on the assumption that those abilities aren't "wasted" on a miss.

One of the most frustrating things about playing a paladin in 3.x was to declare one of your limited smites for the day and then whiff.

If I was playing a paladin under your rules, I'd probably never use smites (outside of the smite spells, because at least those trigger on a hit once cast, unless you've changed those, too) as it would be way to risky.

 

[Staffan]

Do you also require Battlemaster fighters to declare use a Superiority die before they make an attack or dual-wielding rogues to declare which of their two weapon attacks is eligible for sneak attacks? Because both those classes (and the paladin) were balanced on the assumption that those abilities aren't "wasted" on a miss.

I'm considering a compromise as a house rule: you declare before the attack that you're going to use Divine Smite and what level slot you're using, but the slot is only expended on a hit. That does away with the "whiffing" problem, while still making sure paladins can't choose to only use it when they get the most out of it (on a crit).

 

[AwakenedShrub420]

any ability to be used with an attack has to be declared before the attack is made (at least under my rules). nothing is wasted on a miss, they just don't get the chance to use it.

 

[Psikerlord#]

One PALADIN critical hit, it can use Divine smite and "DOUBLE" his Divine Smite dice damage?

Yep paladins are borderline Op in 5e. I recommended making smite a bonus action, helps on things like crits, only once per turn, and not on OAs.

Note i dont use the -5/+10 mechanic either - so the whole partys dmg is in a closer ballpark, which greatly improves the game ime