Diviner powers -- need help!

[ZephyrTR]

Ive been working on something kinda major -- I'm trying to bring back the eight magic schools system from 3rd ed into 4th ed, and I'm doing that by trying to split up Wizard into eight different classes: Evoker, Illusionist, Necromancer...

Ive been trying to make a Diviner class, but I'm having trouble coming up with powers (mostly Dailys). I went the traditional route and gave them blindness and magical sight to start off. They seem more of a Leader than a Striker, given Identify, True Strike, and all the classics, but I'm very stuck in coming up with new stuff.

If you're feeling creative, would you give me ideas below for Utilities and Dailys for a "Leader-type" Diviner Wizard class?

 

[Siberys]

<div class="facetious">Have you looked at the prescient bard?</div> They do the "lead through divination" thing - If you don't use the build, it could at least give you some ideas.

Are you making a Diviner (Arcane Leader) class, or are we talking Wizard (Diviner Build) (Arcane Controller sub Leader)?

 

[ZephyrTR]

Arcane Leader. What I'm hoping to do is fracture the Wizard into 8 'specialized' classes, and allow them to dabble in other class' spells, sort of like it was in 3rd ed. A lot of the richness of the Wizard was stripped away in 4th ed and I'm hoping to bring some of that back.

So its an Arcane Leader class. Thanks for the link to Prescient Bard. I'll check it out.

 

[Mentat55]

It'll be a bit hard to make a specialist wizard from pre-4e play like a leader in 4e, mainly because of the healing -- healing is distinctly not something wizards ever did. But perhaps you could do something radical and give diviners an encounter immediate interrupt that negates a damaging attack -- some sort of foresight power. Sort of retroactive healing.

A lot of the classic diviner powers are divination rituals now. But scouting powers like arcane eye or prying eyes could be good daily utility powers. I think there is a paladin power a lot like telepathic bond.

Attack spells are going to be tough, by the very nature of the divination school. But I could imagine a powerful daily that you cast on an ally or allies that lets them reroll missed attacks for an encounter, or increases their critical range, or reveals a target's weaknesses (gives an enemy vulnerable something). I think these would be reasonable divination spells AND reasonable Leader-type dailies.

I would kinda imagine a diviner to play somewhat like a tactical warlord, where you hand out a lot of bonuses and attacks, and perhaps make very few, if any, direct attacks yourself.

 

[sammy]

What about the cleric build from Divine Power? He had a some powers that had no damage either. Not a direct help, but may give a few ideas for your diviner, plus cleric is also a leader.

I like the idea of the interrupt that shields an ally from damage. That seems like a good replacement for healing. Maybe even let that ally shift a square also?

I look forward to your efforts, as I am a fan of wizards also.

Sammy

 

[ZephyrTR]

Mentat55, you're quite intelligent! After brainstorming for a while, I too came up with allowing allies to reroll or increasing threat range. Also, things like True Strike. I REALLY like the idea of giving Vulnerabilities, an ability like "Fiery Portent" that gives Vulnerable 5 Fire to a bloody creature, save ends. That sounds like a good Encounter power to me.

I'd also dabbled with abilities like "Heavenly Visions" that lets an ally use a Healing Surge, but they get back Temp HP instead. I don't like the idea of Wizards healing, and I dont think you do either. It's not perfect, but might be workable.

I REALLY like this negate damage idea you have, but rarely does someone get hit for 1/4 of their HP, so it gets a bit tricky, but maybe not?

Sammy's suggestion of shifting when the ability goes off might help make up the difference. You're "healed" 8 hp, when a Surge would give 12, but you got to shift 1, so...

 

[ZephyrTR]

BTW, I already have a LOT of my wizard classes done, at least in the Heroic tier.

If you're interested, I could share some time.

Alchemists: Defender -- control a golem that protects your party, lots of useful Utilities.

Diabolists: Striker -- summon demons, but you must make saving throws to maintain control. Fail 1-3 times and the demon breaks loose and can attack whomever it likes. Also Melf's Acid Arrow & Cloudkill, stuff like that.

Enchanters: Controller -- Based off the Human Hexer. Hex targets, and they have dailies that have a wide area of effect, but harm only creatures that are hexed.

Illusionists: Controller -- already detailed a little in 4E. Lots of Daze and Stun, not much damage. Shadow conjurations and evocations, too.

Magi: Striker -- Fireball, Lightning bolt, you know the drill. Kinda junky utilities, though.

Necromancers: Controller -- Gain Rituals to make undead, Spectral Hand, Vampiric Touch, a lot of strong spells that can only target a creature that's Immobilized. Plays a lot like a Wight.

Watchers: Controller -- Lay runes down on the floor that have various effects, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Magic Missile. A lot of their play comes from the Master of the Unseen Hand 3rd ed Prestige class, but also the old Rune spells.

 

[Mentat55]

Re: the negate damage power, I might design it to be an immediate interrupt, triggered by being hit by an attack, the effect being that the attack misses. So you use it when you get hit hard, and you use it when the attack also has nasty riders, like stun or immobilize or something else. So it could be quite potent.

Are you going to make a Transmuter?

 

[ZephyrTR]

That's exactly as I envisioned it too, but you're right: avoiding effects makes it powerful in a different way. It can thus 'remove' damage as well as status effects.

My transmuter would be the Alchemist. I like the idea of drawing more from legend on transmutation than from 3rd Ed, so he gets a golem, later on the Panacea and the Universal Solvent. He sort of lets his golem do the dirty work, buffs it and his allies, and has real useful utilities.

 

[tyrlaan]

Going to chime in along similar lines as Mentat55. If you want the diviner to be a leader, eschew the Joe standard "usable 2 times an encounter" heal power and replace it with some sort of damage absorbing interrupt that probably is usable much more often (maybe 1+primary stat mod times per encounter or something).

If you go this route, I'd be really interested in hearing how it plays out - I think there's a lot of design space for classes that use mechanics other than the assumed ones (marking, encounter power heal spell, etc) and can still do their job.

All of that said, diviner seems better suited to be a controller to me.