D&D General DMs how do you feel about players fudging?

[overgeeked]

This is a a companion thread to the other poll on fudging. I think DM responses matter on this issue. It needs no further description: whatever you consider "fudging" to be, what do you as a DM think of players doing it?

Word of warning: you cannot change your vote. Pick wisely!

 

[Cadence]

The DM seems to have official license from the rules to fudge as a tool at their disposal. If session 0 rules out fudging for the DM then the DM would be cheating to do so.

The rules have no license for the player to fudge in the books, and it seems like it would generally be considered cheating for them to do so. If session 0 gave them the green light to do so then it would not be cheating.

I see know reason to continue associating IRL with people who cheat in games.

 

[Thomas Shey]

As I've noted before, I just can't make myself care. And the unnuanced options here aren't much more helpful than in the other thread.

 

[Maxperson]

There is no "Players can't fudge. They can only cheat." option.

 

[R_J_K75]

Players fudging dice rolls is cheating period. If a player starts an action and then realizes their folly with or without DM intervention, then wants to change their action I think that's acceptable, but I'd still consider it fudging. As long as that doesn't become too common, I don't see the harm in it other than slowing the game down. It happens at our table sometimes. I chose neutral but think I fall between neutral and negative.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I've enabled a number of anti-dice hosing measures just for this purpose.

 

[iserith]

With all these related threads and confusing discussions, I don't know whether to fudge or go blind.

 

[Guest 7034872]

The DM seems to have official license from the rules to fudge as a tool at their disposal. If session 0 rules out fudging for the DM then the DM would be cheating to do so.

The rules have no license for the player to fudge in the books, and it seems like it would generally be considered cheating for them to do so. If session 0 gave them the green light to do so then it would not be cheating.

I see know reason to continue associating IRL with people who cheat in games.

Yeah, I think the main thing is that DM fudging of rolls is supposed to be done when and only when it's needed for the party's overall welfare and/or something in the adventure has gone way, way off. Players, IME, do it almost exclusively for selfish reasons. That's why I've never found analogies between the two scenarios plausible.

 

[R_J_K75]

With all these related threads and confusing discussions, I don't know whether to fudge or go blind.

I know there were quite a few times where I almost posted a comment that could've been deemed questionable (but funny) at best but thought twice and decided not to. Though I couldn't help thinking there's a joke in there somewhere.

 

[Maxperson]

With all these related threads and confusing discussions, I don't know whether to fudge or go blind.

If you were willing to bend, you could fudge the number of threads down a bit.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

My stance is no different from the other threads. Fudging, as I have defined the term (secretly and non-diegetically changing the rolls of/upon, or modifiers from/applied to, creatures or entities already actively participating in the play space) is bad. Doesn't matter who does it.

I see no further reason to discuss this one.

 

[commandercrud]

Cheating is cheating.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

After reading through numerous threads on the matter with many pages filled with passionate and rationale righteous arguments, I've changed fudged my mind. Fudging is for cowards and the weak. From now on, its 3d6 for stats in order as Gygax intended, and no whining about what you get. Because playing what you want, the way that you want, is lying and cheating, and you'll go to hell for it. Who am I, or anyone else for that matter, to question the will of our almighty polyhedral overlords? All hail the dice, who are the true masters of these game! Which game? I don't have any answers because I am only human. Let's roll to find out everything, including my attitude for any of my subsequent responses.

 

[Oofta]

Only slightly less lenient than when I DM. Want to change your backstory or even switch up some class feature options that aren't working for you? Talk to me about it and we'll see if we can work something out. Tired of running your current PC? They can wander off screen or retire and you can bring in someone new. Choose to roll a dice for any reason and then ignore/change the result? Nope.

 

[Jer]

Depends entirely on what you mean by "fudging" in this context.

Lying about dice rolls? I mean, I don't play with anyone who would do that so I'm not sure how I'd react.

Deciding that they made a mistake in character creation and wanting to rebuild their character? Sure it's fine. Changes subclasses, tweak some scores, change some proficiencies, whatever. If I can explain away why one player's character only appears every few sessions, I can certainly explain away one character having some subtle alterations between adventures.

Deciding that they're bored with their current character and want to swap in something different? Also fine - if they're bored that probably means we both haven't been all that interested in their character since I should have been using their hooks to make them more interested.

Fudging from the DM side is usually a narrative thing - altering the die rolls to make sure that the fiction is being supported (if it's just because the DM wants to "win" at combats that's not fudging, that's just abuse of DM authority). If the players need to perform a narrative patch on their side that's also fine with me, we can make it work.

 

[aco175]

I had a discussion with some of my players about these threads last night and how they feel about the DM and players fudging. They were fine with the DM changing some of the things around to make the game more exciting and feel that the players need to be honest in their not being able to fudge. Rolling dice is the obvious fudge, but small things like 'finding' another healing potion on your sheet is a fudge to me as well. I have the players roll the damage against them from the monsters so I guess they could fudge that but it has not been a problem since everyone can see most rolls.

I decided to try a type of inspiration for the players next game as a sort of player fudge. I call it a hero point that lets the player reroll something instead of just gain advantage. I plan to give them one per game to be used that night. They can use it on other players if they want to reroll a save or reroll a monster attack or damage if they want and we will see how much it affects things.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

I had a discussion with some of my players about these threads last night and how they feel about the DM and players fudging. They were fine with the DM changing some of the things around to make the game more exciting and feel that the players need to be honest in their not being able to fudge. Rolling dice is the obvious fudge, but small things like 'finding' another healing potion on your sheet is a fudge to me as well. I have the players roll the damage against them from the monsters so I guess they could fudge that but it has not been a problem since everyone can see most rolls.

I decided to try a type of inspiration for the players next game as a sort of player fudge. I call it a hero point that lets the player reroll something instead of just gain advantage. I plan to give them one per game to be used that night. They can use it on other players if they want to reroll a save or reroll a monster attack or damage if they want and we will see how much it affects things.

Finally, a realistic poll with real people in a real group! This is what I expect the actual majority of people think of this subject, and has been my experience as well. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
Because the two other threads weren't bad enough?

Keep the hyperbole down - no matter which side of the issue you are one.

 

[the Jester]

"Fudging", by its nature, is something players cannot do. They can only cheat.

 

[Jer]

I decided to try a type of inspiration for the players next game as a sort of player fudge. I call it a hero point that lets the player reroll something instead of just gain advantage. I plan to give them one per game to be used that night. They can use it on other players if they want to reroll a save or reroll a monster attack or damage if they want and we will see how much it affects things.

Oh yeah - I've been playing games with this kind of narrative "fudging" mechanic for so long that I don't even think of it as a fudge. I also have changed inspiration in D&D into "retroactive advantage" - you don't have to declare your use of inspiration before you roll, you can choose to once you see the result. I guess that also counts as a player fudge.