D&D 5E DMs option: Intelligence for Initiative

DaveDash

Explorer
In terms of Int not being very valuable:

  • I had three players who dumped int. They're level 13. Came close in my last session to wiping them out with a CR8 mind flayer.
  • Also Investigation is used to figure out HOW to disarm a trap according to the DMG,
  • Arcana can be used to detect and disarm magical traps (also in the DMG),
  • I've seen lots of DM's use investigation checks to discover mechanical traps,
  • History checks are also called on quite often in a lot of games.
 

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jrowland

First Post
I like INT as a replacement for Initiative. It makes sense if you can imagine a surprise situation: everyone stands there jaws agape while their minds process the new situation: A fast thinking mind can process faster and so decide to act sooner.
 

This disparity doesn't seem at all in line with the real-life applicability of having a high intelligence.

I'm thinking of offering, in the campaigns I run, intelligence as an alternative to dexterity for initiative rolls, such that players can choose which modifier they'd like to use. It seems obvious that being extraordinarily brilliant would give one a leg up in terms of one's reaction time, and I don't really see any drawbacks to allowing it as an alternative to players. Can you?

I do something along these lines. Inspired by the AD&D initiative rules and the Speed Factor variant from the 5E DMG, I do this every round:

1.) Declare actions, in order from least intelligent creatures to most intelligent creatures. (I.e. quicker thinkers can decide what to do at the last minute, even after they see what everyone else is doing.)
2.) Roll initiative, using DX modifiers as usual, to see who actually completes their action first.
3.) Resolve actions.

In practice, step #2 can usually be skipped. Recently, the only time I actually roll initiative is when step #2 turns out to matter, e.g. "did the drider get his shot off to hit the monk before the barbarian killed him with his 33-HP critical?" But if the drider didn't die, then it just wouldn't matter whether the drider did his 12 HP damage before taking 33 HP of damage.

For the most part this is pretty clean and quick. The one place you have to be careful is to make sure everyone declares their action before announcing the results of their rolls, because the high-int guy shouldn't know whether everyone actually hits their targets before deciding whether or not to Web--he should just be able to tell what they're attempting to do.

One additional twist that I added recently: anyone can Hold their action, in which case they decide what to do after everyone else has already resolved their actions. It's not quite the same thing as Readying an action before you're not locked in to a specific action, but the downside is that you automatically lose initiative to everyone who didn't Hold.

I've been using this system for a little over a month now (4 sessions? 5?) and it is working out well. The fact that it gives a reason to not dump intelligence (unless you are playing a straightforward brute who always uses the same strategy) has been mentioned conversationally by my players, but without any apparent resentment, so it probably doesn't make Int overpowered.
 

VhatNot

Villager
Just my opinion/thought... I could see Intelligence being valid as the modifier to initiative, I could even see Wisdom(being able to react to past situations?). However, to maintain balance I would prefer to have seen Strength to be the modifier for Initiative. Strength has one skill (athletics) and is usually used if your a meat shield. Let that over-zealous Paladin/fighter or the not so bright Barbarian charge in first to soak up the damage. It would give strength more usefulness.
 

Rune

Once A Fool
Knowledge checks have utility in combat. I would stress this by making the information tactically useful. Like allowing a knowledge check when readying an action to see if it is likely to be triggered. And, in cases where PCs choose the battlefield, I have no qualms with letting INT trump DEX for initiative.
 

Well, again for the INT for Initiative argument, how would you square having characters competing against very low IQ, but fast creatures? I might be able to beat a cobra at chess for example, but I doubt I could tickle it’s belly before it bit me!
 
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professorDM

First Post
Well, again for the INT for Initiative argument, how would you square having characters eating against very low IQ, for fast creatures? I might be able to beat a cobra at chess for example, but I doubt I could tickle it’s belly before it bit me!

Maybe that's the problem, Trippy. I just can't imagine the mentally handicapped 4 INT is going react to the cobra with precisely the same quickness as the genius with the 20 INT, DEX being equal. Having an agile mind oughta count for something, it seems to me. (But maybe I'm just no fan of the mind-body problem, or of these kinds of binaries, lol.)

In any case, I can hardly see why a wizard couldn't cast shield at least as fast as a simpleton could scratch a cobra's belly.

But maybe I should just treat initiative more situationally. If it makes sense that INT would seem to give advantage, go with that; if it makes sense that a scenario calls for DEX, go with that; if the situation could be anticipated by a high WIS, then use that. And where appropriate maybe I can allow different characters with differing strengths to use those strengths to determine (against the others' strengths) initiative.

In any case, thanks for the feedback, everyone. Much appreciated.
 

Maybe that's the problem, Trippy. I just can't imagine the mentally handicapped 4 INT is going react to the cobra with precisely the same quickness as the genius with the 20 INT, DEX being equal.
Would a physically handicapped 4 DEX do any better, with INT being equal?

Indeed, wouldn’t the 20 INT guy just say “y’know it’s a really stupid idea to tickle that cobra on the belly anyway. I might just get a pussy cat instead”..
 
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For me, personally, it’s a bit of an overkill. I just think that both Wisdom and Intelligence are actually useful enough without adding extra aspects to them, and it complicates the relationships that Classes have to the abilities as they stand. If I put my highest stat in Dex it may very well be because I put a lot of stake in winning Initiative. Having others get the same bonus from other Ability scores means that Int Wizards essentially get a bonus to cast their spells early, but Dex-based classes like the Rogue are demoted in effectiveness.

Each to their own though.
 

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