Do enemies know they're marked?

[Lurker37]

Or monsters might know that fighters get free attacks on marked targets, the same way they know Wizards cast fireballs.

Even if they don't, they'll figure it out the first time they try to move away from the fighter.

But they'd definitely know they were marked, the same way a DM has to tell a player when they are marked.

 

[Hypersmurf]

My reading: To mark the enemy, you have to attack it. So you have marked it with the power you used to attack it, so you have affected it with a power, so it knows exactly what you've done to it and what conditions you've imposed.

Right - even a basic melee attack is a power, and so when the fighter hits the enemy with the basic melee attack, the enemy takes damage and acquires the marked condition. He knows he has acquired the marked condition.

As to whether the enemy knows he'll be subject to an attack if he shifts or attacks someone other than the fighter, I'm not so sure. The ability to attack a marked target is a class feature of the fighter, not a result of the power that imposed the mark.

If I have a personal range power that says "You deal +2d6 damage when you attack a creature that has the weakened condition", and my friend the Warlock hits an enemy with a power that imposes the weakened condition, what does the enemy know?

"You are weakened"?
or
"You are weakened, and that guy over there has a power that will grant him +2d6 damage because of it"?

I'd contend the enemy only knows the result of the power (he's weakened) and not indirect consequences (another power exists that can take advantage of the condition). Similarly, I'd contend the enemy struck by the fighter knows the result of the attack (he's marked), but not indirect consequences resulting from that condition (he's subject to attack if he shifts).

-Hyp.

 

[ryryguy]

I think it's clear that the intention is that yes, the monster would know that the fighter marked it and all the consequences thereof.

Sure, combat challenge is a class feature and not a power; the quoted PHB says "powers" and refers to Divine Challenge which is a power. But what would be the reason for treating them differently in this case? The philosophy seems to be that you should be pretty open about this stuff. The game is not about "gotchas".

Of course if you think it would be more fun to keep the combat challenge consequences "under cover", by all means, play that way. I just can't really imagine how it would be more fun.

(Also, with unintelligent monsters this might be a moot point - even if they were given the equivalent of a power point presentation on combat challenge and its effects, they aren't really going to change their tactics based on that info - they barely have tactics. They should just almost always be attacking the character who marked them anyway.)

 

[DracoSuave]

Right - even a basic melee attack is a power, and so when the fighter hits the enemy with the basic melee attack, the enemy takes damage and acquires the marked condition. He knows he has acquired the marked condition.

As to whether the enemy knows he'll be subject to an attack if he shifts or attacks someone other than the fighter, I'm not so sure. The ability to attack a marked target is a class feature of the fighter, not a result of the power that imposed the mark.

If I have a personal range power that says "You deal +2d6 damage when you attack a creature that has the weakened condition", and my friend the Warlock hits an enemy with a power that imposes the weakened condition, what does the enemy know?

"You are weakened"?
or
"You are weakened, and that guy over there has a power that will grant him +2d6 damage because of it"?

I'd contend the enemy only knows the result of the power (he's weakened) and not indirect consequences (another power exists that can take advantage of the condition). Similarly, I'd contend the enemy struck by the fighter knows the result of the attack (he's marked), but not indirect consequences resulting from that condition (he's subject to attack if he shifts).

-Hyp.

Altho in the case of Combat Challenge, it's not from different abilities, but two different parts of the same ability. Part of the Defender shtick is that the enemy knows there are consquences involved in attacking other characters once they are marked. Enemies will react accordingly.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Altho in the case of Combat Challenge, it's not from different abilities, but two different parts of the same ability.

It's one ability with two parts, true. One part affects enemies; the other part affects the Fighter.

One part imposes the marked condition, and the other part grants the Fighter a power he can use on marked opponents.

Let's say a new class, the Warrior, has two class features, Combat Mark and Combat Whack. Combat Mark states "Every time you attack an enemy, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target." Combat Whack states "Whenever a marked enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt."

Do you feel the enemy attacked by a Fighter would get more information than the enemy attacked by the Warrior? Both the Fighter and the Warrior mark the target when they attack. Both the Fighter and the Warrior get a free melee attack against the marked target if he shifts.

Both the Fighter and the Warrior make an attack against an opponent (different opponents). The power they're using is "Basic Melee Attack". The consequences of that power effectively become Hit: The enemy takes damage. Effect: The enemy is marked.

In neither case is the character's ability to strike a marked enemy who shifts an effect on that enemy of the Basic Melee Attack they originally attacked with; rather, it's an ability granted to the character by a class feature.

-Hyp.

 

[Hejdun]

I am almost positive that I saw something in the PHB that went something like:

"Your opponent knows exactly what conditions you have marked him with."

Am I just hallucinating or has anyone else seen this?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I am almost positive that I saw something in the PHB that went something like:

"Your opponent knows exactly what conditions you have marked him with."

Am I just hallucinating or has anyone else seen this?

p57:
Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you've done to it and what conditions you’ve imposed. For example, when a paladin uses divine challenge against an enemy, the enemy knows that it has been marked and that it will therefore take a penalty to attack rolls and some damage if it attacks anyone aside from the paladin.

Which is true - when you hit with Divine Challenge, the enemy is marked (which she knows), and if she attacks someone aside from the paladin, Divine Challenge will deal her damage (which she knows).

When a Fighter hits with a basic attack, the enemy is marked (which she knows). That's all the power (basic attack) does - deals some damage, and marks the enemy. The power (basic attack) doesn't care if the enemy shifts, or attacks someone else - unlike Divine Challenge.

But if the enemy shifts or attacks someone else, the Fighter has a class feature that lets him smack her, because she is marked. That wasn't something imposed by the original attack, so the enemy isn't informed in advance, any more than an enemy is informed in advance "That Fighter has the Polearm Gamble feat, and if you enter an adjacent square, he'll get an OA".

-Hyp.

 

[essenbee]

But doesn't answer the question about whether they know the fighter will pummel them if they try to move...

Yes they are aware that they are Marked.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes they are aware that they are Marked.

They're aware that they are Marked, but they aren't necessarily aware that the Fighter has a class feature that lets him smack a Marked opponent who shifts.

-Hyp.

 

[Kzach]

I explain it in my head as the fighter parrying, blocking, attacking, feinting, etc. constantly against the marked enemy, therefore making it difficult for them to attack anyone else, and if they do, or if they move, they're giving the fighter an opening which he's especially trained to take advantage of.

This works with the whole idea of Wisdom (perception) being used as a bonus to opportunity attacks as well as the fact that the fighter can only mark someone he has just attacked.

So I would say that yes, the monster would realise they're being especially targeted by the fighter.