Do enemies know they're marked?

[DracoSuave]

I explain it in my head as the fighter parrying, blocking, attacking, feinting, etc. constantly against the marked enemy, therefore making it difficult for them to attack anyone else, and if they do, or if they move, they're giving the fighter an opening which he's especially trained to take advantage of.

This works with the whole idea of Wisdom (perception) being used as a bonus to opportunity attacks as well as the fact that the fighter can only mark someone he has just attacked.

So I would say that yes, the monster would realise they're being especially targeted by the fighter.

And if the Fighter wanted to be subtle about it... well that's what Bluff checks are for.

I like the idea of using skills to compliment your combat abilities in that way.

 

[Gruns]

Badly worded.

Yes they are aware that they are Marked.

Yeah, I know they know they are marked. My question in the topic was badly worded. The real question I want to know is, do they know the warrior will get an attack if they try to move and/or attack someone else.

Gruns

 

[Anselyn]

I explain it in my head as the fighter parrying, blocking, attacking, feinting, etc. constantly against the marked enemy, therefore making it difficult for them to attack anyone else, and if they do, or if they move, they're giving the fighter an opening which he's especially trained to take advantage of.

I absolutely agree and was about to say something roughly like this. It's interesting to me to see how much the general conception of D&D has shifted along the Gamist<-> Simulationist axis that the default response isn't in terms of a marked fighter's perception of his world but sometimes (and bizarrely to me) about the potential perception of characters of _game_ mechanisms:

Or monsters might know that fighters get free attacks on marked targets, the same way they know Wizards cast fireballs.

 

[Lurker37]

Actually I think of it more as a marked target is simply being watched carefully by the marker, who is looking for an opening. But really, however the DM ( or player?) describes it, the fact is that marked signifies something in game real enough for a target to be aware of it.

This isn't because of metagame, but because if a target of a divine challenge is aware that they are marked, it also means that they know what 'marked' is, and thus it must be a real and detectable condition in the game world. Ergo, a target is aware of being marked, no matter how it happened.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

I think everyone already agrees that the target knows it has been marked. The question is, whether the target is aware of the second part of the fighters ability - the one that grants the basic attack under certain conditions.

I side with Hypersmurf on this. It's not a power (it's a class feature), so that rule from p57 doesn't apply.


Let's take Lasting Frost (feat). The enemy hit by a power with the cold descriptor knows that it has now vulnerability cold 5. But you would not inform him if anyone in the party has any other cold powers, not even if the caster of that power has any of those left.


And there are powers out there that explicitly mark opponents on their own. Now, would you inform those monsters of the second part of the fighter's class feature? Why would you do that. The fighter needs a target that was marked by him, how that happened, he doesn't have to care.

 

[DracoSuave]

I think everyone already agrees that the target knows it has been marked. The question is, whether the target is aware of the second part of the fighters ability - the one that grants the basic attack under certain conditions.

I side with Hypersmurf on this. It's not a power (it's a class feature), so that rule from p57 doesn't apply.


Let's take Lasting Frost (feat). The enemy hit by a power with the cold descriptor knows that it has now vulnerability cold 5. But you would not inform him if anyone in the party has any other cold powers, not even if the caster of that power has any of those left.


And there are powers out there that explicitly mark opponents on their own. Now, would you inform those monsters of the second part of the fighter's class feature? Why would you do that. The fighter needs a target that was marked by him, how that happened, he doesn't have to care.

But the fighter's CC isn't a -gotcha- style ability either. He marks you, part of the challenge part is the fact that enemies know 'this ain't no regulah mark'. Fighters aren't -supposed- to be surprising with the CC. They -want- the enemy to know 'Hey buddy. I dare you to try something stupid. Dare ya.'

Basicly, if the fighter wants to conceal this ability, he can do so -once- before it gets figured out. If he doesn't, then he doesn't have to, the monsters will get a sense of it from how he fights.

Worst case scenario, make a roll for the monsters for it and don't worry about it. Figure out which version the player -wants- and let him have it... to a point.

 

[Terwox]

But the fighter's CC isn't a -gotcha- style ability either. He marks you, part of the challenge part is the fact that enemies know 'this ain't no regulah mark'. Fighters aren't -supposed- to be surprising with the CC. They -want- the enemy to know 'Hey buddy. I dare you to try something stupid. Dare ya.'

Basicly, if the fighter wants to conceal this ability, he can do so -once- before it gets figured out. If he doesn't, then he doesn't have to, the monsters will get a sense of it from how he fights.

Heck, I don't think the fighter should be able to conceal it. Visually to me, the fighter is fighting close with and harassing enemies he has marked, boxing them in and such. If they try to shift away, he cuts off their escape with his body and harassment, and if they go through with moving past him he punishes the opening he created.

The fact that he can do it to more than one person at once is what makes him magical/very skilled.

 

[webrunner]

Is it just me, or in 'regular' situations, fighters and paladins will never get their 'mark' or 'ao' bonuses, because 99% of the time the monster is going to avoid AOs and attacking someone that didnt mark them. How do DMs deal with this? Do they have the monsters attack people outside of the mark range? If i do that I feel like i'm 'cheating' for the players, and that's not what I really want to do.

 

[erik_the_guy]

Enemies that are used to combat generally know when I DM. Someone not as experienced in melee may not pick up on it.

If a player becomes marked I would say something along the lines of
"The orc watches you carefully, as though daring you to step away or focus your attacks elsewhere."
If they don't pick up on it the first time, they will afterward.

 

[Staffan]

Is it just me, or in 'regular' situations, fighters and paladins will never get their 'mark' or 'ao' bonuses, because 99% of the time the monster is going to avoid AOs and attacking someone that didnt mark them. How do DMs deal with this? Do they have the monsters attack people outside of the mark range? If i do that I feel like i'm 'cheating' for the players, and that's not what I really want to do.

That's the whole point. A defender's job is to make sure the monsters attack him instead of the squishier party members. It's not really intended as a way for the defender to do extra damage.