Do Flaming and Flaming Burst stack?

[kreynolds]

If I deal you 20 points of fire damage, and you have EE[f] and RE[f] running, then EE negates 5 points, and RE negates 12 points... but the 5 the EE negates are the same as 5 of the 12 RE negates, so 8 points get through.

This is the first time I have ever seen anyone explain it like that, so its kinda throwin' me for a loop.

The way I understood it is that if you have EE and RE running at the same time, then one will continue to absorb as much damage as possible (while the other does absolutely nothing), and when the first spell discharges from absorbing so much damage, the second one will begin absorbing damage as best it can. So, there's the chance that with both spells running, you'll probably benefit from both in one round when the first finally drops.

If you have EE[f] and EE[c] running, and I deal 6 points of fire damage and 6 points of cold damage, then each spell intercepts 5 points. The two damage types don't overlap, so you take 1 point of fire damage and 1 point of cold damage.

Right. That does indeed make sense. Besides, if they couldn't stack, then I guess you wouldn't ever see magic items with multiple energy resistances on them, right? Thanks.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Huh? Those numbers don't work out.

Sure they do.

Let's say we have 20 points of Fire damage, and let's imagine, hypothetically, that Resist Elements - 12 damage per round - and Endure Elements - 5 damage per round - stack.

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F    = F
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3 points get through.

But they don't stack; they overlap.

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F    = F
F    = F
F    = F
F    = F
F    = F
F    = F
F    = F
F    = F
F[/color]R
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[color=red]F[/color]RE
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8 points get through.

If you had Protection from Elements with 4 points of protection left, and Endure Elements, but not Resist Elements, then PfE would discharge blocking 4 points, and Endure Elements would block 5 points, but because they overlap, 15 points would get through.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

Sure they do.

Yeah, I caught what you were saying after I posted.

If you had Protection from Elements with 4 points of protection left, and Endure Elements, but not Resist Elements, then PfE would discharge blocking 4 points, and Endure Elements would block 5 points, but because they overlap, 15 points would get through.

This part though, I don't think I agree with. Like I said, you're the first person that has ever proposed that this is how it works. AFAIK, Protection from Elements would block 4 and then drop, but because it's now out of the way, Endure Elements would block another 5. Overlaping can't apply because's there is no longer any overlap.

 

[Hypersmurf]

AFAIK, Protection from Elements would block 4 and then drop, but because it's now out of the way, Endure Elements would block another 5. Overlaping can't apply because's there is no longer any overlap.

But the spell description specifically says "Protection from Elements overlaps (and does not stack with) Resist Elements and Endure Elements".

The only mention of one going quiescent is Endure Elements if Resist Elements is already running - it doesn't say either go quiescent while PfE is absorbing. It says they overlap with it.

By my reading, "overlap" describes the diagram above, if you substitute some Protection points for Endure points, for example.

By the wording, I can see you getting 17 points of Fire protection from Endure Elements and Resist Elements if you got hit by a 12+ point attack, then dispelled Resist Elements, then got hit by a 5+ point attack.

In practice, though, as a DM, I wouldn't have Endure Elements go dormant, I'd just have it overlap with Resist Elements.

-Hyp.

 

[LordAO]

combining fire and lightning sound resonable. combining fire and ice sounds self defeating [most dm's i know would have the two effects negate each other.]

Be careful about applying pseudo-physics to spells. This is magic. Fire and cold most certainly can be combined together in a single effect. Strange for sure, but not as weird as some things I've seen.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I'm not so sure about this. Endure Elements doesn't stack, and you have to choose the energy type at the time of casting. So, AFAIK, while you may have Endure Elements (cold) and Endure Elements (fire) going, only one of them will actually work at a time. Am I incorrect on this? I ask because I'm not 100% sure.

There are no rules that disallow stacking multiple Endure Elements or any other spell for that matter. IMHO, the default rule is to permit stacking unless there is a strong reason to disallow it.

The only real "restriction" is that few spells provide useful effects with multiples of the exact same spell (due to the very explicit stacking rules). Examples: Endure Elements, Bestow Curse, Polymorph Other, Polymorph Self, Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer, Rary's Telepathic Bond, Vampiric Touch.

Note that it is a valid tactic to throw multiple copies of the same buff spell to fortify against a targetted Dispel.

 

[rhammer2]

Hypersmurf is correct. The elemental protection spells overlap and do not stack if the spells protect against the same elemental energy.

But the spell description specifically says "Protection from Elements overlaps (and does not stack with) Resist Elements and Endure Elements".

The only mention of one going quiescent is Endure Elements if Resist Elements is already running - it doesn't say either go quiescent while PfE is absorbing. It says they overlap with it.

By my reading, "overlap" describes the diagram above, if you substitute some Protection points for Endure points, for example.

By the wording, I can see you getting 17 points of Fire protection from Endure Elements and Resist Elements if you got hit by a 12+ point attack, then dispelled Resist Elements, then got hit by a 5+ point attack.

In practice, though, as a DM, I wouldn't have Endure Elements go dormant, I'd just have it overlap with Resist Elements.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

But the spell description specifically says "Protection from Elements overlaps (and does not stack with) Resist Elements and Endure Elements".

The elemental protection spells overlap and do not stack if the spells protect against the same elemental energy.

I never said they stacked. I said that for at least one round, there is no overlap.

 

[Destil]

combining fire and lightning sound resonable. combining fire and ice sounds self defeating [most dm's i know would have the two effects negate each other.]

Cold-fire causes chemical reactions like fire would while draining heat from an object. So you get burns and are also frozen. Makes enough sense for fantasy.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I never said they stacked. I said that for at least one round, there is no overlap.

Cite?

The only mention of any of the spells not absorbing the first points of damage in a round is Endure Elements if Resist Elements is running.

If you have PfE and RE, the descriptions say that PfE absorbs points until it is exhausted, and RE absorbs the first 12 points in the round, and they do not overlap.

If you have PfE and EE, the descriptions say that PfE absorbs points until it is exhausted, and EE absorbs the first 5 points in the round, and they do not overlap.

If you have PfE, RE, and EE, the descriptions say that PfE absorbs points until it is exhausted, and RE absorbs the first 12 points in the round, and they do not overlap - and EE does not absorb damage.

No mention of RE waiting until PfE has had a go before jumping in.

-Hyp.