Do grognards have to be jerks?

[catsclaw227]

In an open discussion about the broad spectrum pointing out what or why you like something is okay but this was a line for a certain event he was standing in trashing what the line was for. That's a social shortcoming of large proportions.

Agreed. People that go to an edition specific event for the purpose of poisoning the water are jerks, plain and simple. I've seen this at two different FLGS's for 4e Encounters events and for Pathfinder Society events.

 

[catsclaw227]

People aren't jerks. They are mildly flawed and following the reward structures the community put in place.

Believe me. I have met people that are most certainly jerks.

 

[Elf Witch]

Let me put it another way.

I run a 4E group. I play in another 4E group (different people). I also, until our DM recently moved, played in a 3.5 group pretty regularly.

Neither I nor any of my 4E players have, to my knowledge, ever attacked or criticized another D&D player because they played 3E or earlier editions.

Have I been criticized or "corrected" for playing 4E? You betcha. Often times, by the same people selling me the 4E products (such as one of the cashiers at the Jensen Beach Borders)? Absolutely. Sometimes, by some of the players in our other groups? Yep.

By the way, none of the examples I gave took place on RPG internet forums or at conventions --- where I would expect strong opinions about RPG systems. These little "confrontations" happen in the hum-drum of regular, everyday life.

I have received the distinct impression that certain players of older editions --- at least here in the Treasure Coast of Florida --- are very elitist, hostile, and accusatory to people who play 4E, even if (as in my case) they also play earlier editions, as well. I have yet to encounter any such comparable behavior by 4E players in my neck of the woods (which, incidentally, spans 3 counties in southern Florida).

Then again, I don't really go to conventions and I don't count internet forums as "real life". I suspect the situaiton may be different there.

I live in South Florida and I have been told that I am making a mistake buying Pathfinder by the cashier at Borders.

I have had my card looking for players for a 3.5 game defaced with the comments of why bother 4E is the only way to go.

So taking your experiences and adding them to mine we find fans on both sides being jerks.

I would also like to say that I have met some really nice 4E fans. I was looking for a present for a friend who plays 4E and the clerk at the gaming store does not play DnD he pointed out someone who does. The guy was incredibly helpful and we had a pleasnt conversation about gaming.

You know my experience has been that nice gamers are more common then the jerks.

 

[Mournblade94]

Let me put it another way.

I run a 4E group. I play in another 4E group (different people). I also, until our DM recently moved, played in a 3.5 group pretty regularly.

Neither I nor any of my 4E players have, to my knowledge, ever attacked or criticized another D&D player because they played 3E or earlier editions.

Have I been criticized or "corrected" for playing 4E? You betcha. Often times, by the same people selling me the 4E products (such as one of the cashiers at the Jensen Beach Borders)? Absolutely. Sometimes, by some of the players in our other groups? Yep.

By the way, none of the examples I gave took place on RPG internet forums or at conventions --- where I would expect strong opinions about RPG systems. These little "confrontations" happen in the hum-drum of regular, everyday life.

I have received the distinct impression that certain players of older editions --- at least here in the Treasure Coast of Florida --- are very elitist, hostile, and accusatory to people who play 4E, even if (as in my case) they also play earlier editions, as well. I have yet to encounter any such comparable behavior by 4E players in my neck of the woods (which, incidentally, spans 3 counties in southern Florida).

Then again, I don't really go to conventions and I don't count internet forums as "real life". I suspect the situaiton may be different there.

And similarly enough, just last wednesday I went to get some books from Borders going out of business sale. I bought a new copy of the PHB 3.5, and Abominations (lords of madness or something. The girl at the counter, said I should get the 4e books on sale since 3rd edition is not the updated version. Our conversation continued, to where she said the more modern was better. I disagreed.

For every situation of an old grognard grumbling about 4e there is a situation of a 4e avenger doing the same thing.

I played in a 4e game last month as a filler, playing a ranger where the DM finished combat, and then turned directly to me, and said "see how much faster combat goes?". Ofcourse I told him how that was a fallacy and only the prep for encounters might be shorter. To be fair I do not see combat as any quicker in 3rd edition, but it is the same in 4e.

 

[Mournblade94]

I live in South Florida and I have been told that I am making a mistake buying Pathfinder by the cashier at Borders.

I have had my card looking for players for a 3.5 game defaced with the comments of why bother 4E is the only way to go.

So taking your experiences and adding them to mine we find fans on both sides being jerks.

I would also like to say that I have met some really nice 4E fans. I was looking for a present for a friend who plays 4E and the clerk at the gaming store does not play DnD he pointed out someone who does. The guy was incredibly helpful and we had a pleasnt conversation about gaming.

You know my experience has been that nice gamers are more common then the jerks.

Its amazing to me that it is difficult for people to realize they are emotionally biased. They simply can draw no correlation.

 

[AeroDm]

Believe me. I have met people that are most certainly jerks.

Well, sure, but there is a difference between people as a pronoun referring to an abstract general person and people as a noun referring to all persons. People aren't jerks; persons certainly can be jerks.

 

[Elf Witch]

In an open discussion about the broad spectrum pointing out what or why you like something is okay but this was a line for a certain event he was standing in trashing what the line was for. That's a social shortcoming of large proportions.

And trying to talk a newbie who is joining a gaming group out of it because you don't like the system is ok?

I have noticed that people who like an edition and dislike another often say things like he was trashing the system or he was being a jerk when the person may have only been talking about things in general.

Saying wow 4E sucks big time it is a horrible system you shouldn't waste your time is being rude.

Saying oh you are interested in RPGs that's cool. You know there are different editions besides fourth. You might want to also check out Pathfinder. That is not rude.

A lot depends on how something is stated and if the other person shows interested. If the other person is not interested in hearing about it then even if you are not trashing another edition you are still being rude.

 

[Janx]

And similarly enough, just last wednesday I went to get some books from Borders going out of business sale. I bought a new copy of the PHB 3.5, and Abominations (lords of madness or something. The girl at the counter, said I should get the 4e books on sale since 3rd edition is not the updated version. Our conversation continued, to where she said the more modern was better. I disagreed.

In this case, you could look at the story a different way:
the probability the clerk actually knows D&D is low.
The clerk being familiar with the product titles knows that a newer version is out is reasonably high
She may have been generically trying to advise a customer, that 'hey, that's for the old version, you should get the new version".

Why is this relevant? Because general wisdom is, that UNLESS you are looking for an old version (for price or preference), if you are just buying into a new product, you SHOULD get the new version. Because it is supported, etc.

It's not a wrong strategy. Its wrong to you because you knew exactly what you were doing and why you wanted the old version.

But plenty of people show up at her til, looking to buy a versioned product, but not realizing that they grabbed the old one. it doesn't take an expert to recommend "hey, that's the old version", nor that "the newer one is probably better".

 

[catsclaw227]

Well, sure, but there is a difference between people as a pronoun referring to an abstract general person and people as a noun referring to all persons. People aren't jerks; persons certainly can be jerks.

I suppose it's the opposite of "A Person is smart, people are dumb, panicky animals..."

But looking back a millenia of hate over ideas/religion/philosophy/politics, I would say that People (as a noun referring to all persons) are Jerks. But there are some awesome individuals.

And I consider myself an optimist.

 

[Herschel]

Saying oh you are interested in RPGs that's cool. You know there are different editions besides fourth. You might want to also check out Pathfinder. That is not rude.

Bringing it up in the line before the event IS rude. Approaching him after the event and engaging in a conversation about what they liked and disliked would be the proper course of action. If they disliked something that system x does differently, then that would be the time to bring it up. Otherwise you're the gamer version of a religious pusher.