D&D 5E Do you allow Bladesingers to cast Mending, Shillelagh or Magic Stone as part of the attack action?

[billd91]

Not one of which can be used with the Attack Action. The Attack Action is a very specific action used only to attack something.

Well, that would be you ignoring specific overriding general since the bladesinger's specific rules are allowing you to do something other than make an attack - cast a spell.

 

[TheSword]

It is specific.

From XBE -

• When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.

A hand crossbow is a one handed weapon. If you attack with a hand crossbow you made an attack with a one handed weapon. Since "you are holding" the hand crossbow you can attack a second time with it as a bonus action.



No, a hand crossbow is a one handed weapon and counts as a one handed weapon you are holding.



Nothing, it was a separate part of the post.

Well, knock me down with a feather.

I guess if it needs two feats to start to work and 6 levels of one class and at least one class of another it isn’t going to be crazy.

 

[Maxperson]

Spells, including those which require attack rolls as part of their resolution process, use the Cast a Spell action, not the Attack action, so by your logic no cantrip can be used as part of the Bladesinger feature.

There are cantrips which use attack rolls.

 

[the Jester]

It can't apply to mending since it replaces one attack IN the ATTACK ACTION, so the cantrip has to be an attack of some kind. Nowhere in the ability does it invalidate the Attack Action rules EXCEPT with respect to replacing one attack with a cantrip. That's it. It replaces an attack with a cantrip and since it is still part of the attack action, the cantrip has to attack somehow.

To be clear, is your position that an eldritch knight can't use true strike, acid splash, light, or prestidigitation as part of the attack sequence, as none of those are attacks?

 

[CleverNickName]

It replaces an attack with a cantrip and since it is still part of the attack action, the cantrip has to attack somehow.

Hm. This isn't the worst way to handle it.

 

[the Jester]

Spell descriptions list casting time, not casting action. Casting a 1 action cantrip as part of a bladesinger attack still takes as long as an action, it's just that the bladesinger manages to do a weapon attack at the same time.

This seems completely unsupported by the rules.

 

[the Jester]

There are cantrips which use attack rolls.

Just because it uses an attack roll doesn't mean it uses the Attack action.

 

[Maxperson]

It is specific.

From XBE -

• When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.

A hand crossbow is a one handed weapon. If you attack with a hand crossbow you made an attack with a one handed weapon. Since "you are holding" the hand crossbow you can attack a second time with it as a bonus action.

That doesn't work. This is from the rules on loading, which the above does not specifically override.

"Loading. Because of the time required to load this weapon, you can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make."

Since the Crossbow Expert does not specifically override the loading property, you would have to make the attack with a one handed weapon other than the hand crossbow.

You MUST satisfy all rules involved unless there is specificity that says you can ignore the other rule.

 

[Maxperson]

Just because it uses an attack roll doesn't mean it uses the Attack action.

Correct, which is why the specific rules in the Bladesinger ability that allow it to replace one attack within the attack action exist. It SPECIFICALLY allows the cantrip into the attack action, but does not override other rules, such as allowing attack =/= attack. That last bit excludes mending all by itself.

 

[billd91]

Hm. This isn't the worst way to handle it.

Trouble is - it rules out cantrips that are still potentially useful in a fight that aren't direct attacks, mainly blade ward and truestrike. Arguably, it would even rule out poison spray which, while offensive, makes no attack roll.