D&D General Do You D&D OSR?

[Krachek]

5E has issues with the "high lethality" part, and arguably also the "creative problem solving" part given skills, spells and other character sheet tools most old school games lack.

I think that 5ed can be more lethal, but DM just want more precise CR and Xp budget rules instead.
OS say don’t bother with encounter balance and even balance between PCs, while 5ed fan just ask more balance.

It’s the same problem with creative solution. if DMs constantly ask rolls and features and spells, and want more precise DC, more precise spells description, it will just make a character sheet experience. The 5ed DM guide say that you can go in the opposite way and run the exploration and social aspect with no rolls and just let the players describe what they intent for their PC and the DM describe the outcome.

It is not that you can’t play old school style with 5ed, it is that most people just don’t want that.

 

[Shardstone]

Millennial, got into D&D in 2015 with 5E. A few years later, I got really heavy into the OSR. Played the naughty word out of Lamentations and its many fantastic supplements, played ODD, played out of the Rules Cyclopedia, played Into the Odd and a bunch of NuSR games before NuSR was formalized, etc. Eventually, I returned to 5E, because IMO 5E is a NuSR game if you commit to it. I get nothing out of pure OSR games that I don't out of 5E's ruleset (other than the ease of making monsters for OSR games). However, by playing 5E in an OSR way, I get the best of both worlds.

Nothing superheroic about 5E at all if you commit to running heinous worlds full of brutality and hard decisions. I only run screwed up worlds, and characters 1st-10th level really aren't all that powerful if you're willing to get creative with encounters.

 

[Reynard]

Millennial, got into D&D in 2015 with 5E. A few years later, I got really heavy into the OSR. Played the naughty word out of Lamentations and its many fantastic supplements, played ODD, played out of the Rules Cyclopedia, played Into the Odd and a bunch of NuSR games before NuSR was formalized, etc. Eventually, I returned to 5E, because IMO 5E is a NuSR game if you commit to it. I get nothing out of pure OSR games that I don't out of 5E's ruleset (other than the ease of making monsters for OSR games). However, by playing 5E in an OSR way, I get the best of both worlds.

Nothing superheroic about 5E at all if you commit to running heinous worlds full of brutality and hard decisions. I only run screwed up worlds, and characters 1st-10th level really aren't all that powerful if you're willing to get creative with encounters.

If you have to work against the system to get the outcome you want, as you illustrate you do here, then the system isn't a good fit for that thing. of course you can make it fit, but that doesn't make it broadly applicable. 5E as written is generally "easy mode" because that is what the majority of players want.

 

[Shardstone]

If you have to work against the system to get the outcome you want, as you illustrate you do here, then the system isn't a good fit for that thing. of course you can make it fit, but that doesn't make it broadly applicable. 5E as written is generally "easy mode" because that is what the majority of players want.

I don't consider it working against the system. I'm a game designer because I like to experiment with rules and toys. I don't believe in "this system isn't a good fit" -- if you don't want to do the work, that's valid but to say the system isn't a good fit speaks to a lack of vision or a lack of understanding of what a roleplaying game is in the first place.

I don't care if 5E is written as easy mode or if that's what the majority of players want; I have access to hundreds of players at any time who love my harder games, and I'm one of many DMs I communicate with who are privileged to enjoy the same.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't consider it working against the system. I'm a game designer because I like to experiment with rules and toys. I don't believe in "this system isn't a good fit" -- if you don't want to do the work, that's valid but to say the system isn't a good fit speaks to a lack of vision or a lack of understanding of what a roleplaying game is in the first place.

I don't care if 5E is written as easy mode or if that's what the majority of players want; I have access to hundreds of players at any time who love my harder games, and I'm one of many DMs I communicate with who are privileged to enjoy the same.

I’d love to hear about all the tweaks, changes, and house rules you’ve made to make 5E play like an OSR game.

 

[darjr]

I do find 5e can be run very old school style, especially with folks who either don't know what's on their character sheet or don't much care.

 

[Shardstone]

I’d love to hear about all the tweaks, changes, and house rules you’ve made to make 5E play like an OSR game.

I just finished updating my PDF of an upcoming release I'm doing that I can send to you. It had some pretty big changes from earlier this year due to a heavy round of playtesting.

To sum up things, because it isn't all OSR, is I went to Ability Score Prof, a huge focus on equipment, changes to combat that replace Attacking with described cinematic moments, haven rests, a higher death saving throw DC, a focus on exploration + travel, embracing Countdowns as a modern take on the random encounter roll, and leveling up via scavenging items and bringing them back to oases or patrons. There's more then this, but these tweaks are used in tandem with dynamic encounter design. The OSR in the 2010s had a huge focus on creative tables that generated scenarios, and dropping those scenarios on your players to see what comes out. This emergent gameplay transcends game rules, but when used with my hacks, creates a more dynamic NuSR game suited to my taste. Players do have options on a character sheet, but they are encouraged and pushed to try fiction-first solutions that are enhanced by the items on the sheet, such as creative uses of spells and class abilities.

 

[overgeeked]

I just finished updating my PDF of an upcoming release I'm doing that I can send to you. It had some pretty big changes from earlier this year due to a heavy round of playtesting.

To sum up things, because it isn't all OSR, is I went to Ability Score Prof, a huge focus on equipment, changes to combat that replace Attacking with described cinematic moments, haven rests, a higher death saving throw DC, a focus on exploration + travel, embracing Countdowns as a modern take on the random encounter roll, and leveling up via scavenging items and bringing them back to oases or patrons. There's more then this, but these tweaks are used in tandem with dynamic encounter design. The OSR in the 2010s had a huge focus on creative tables that generated scenarios, and dropping those scenarios on your players to see what comes out. This emergent gameplay transcends game rules, but when used with my hacks, creates a more dynamic NuSR game suited to my taste. Players do have options on a character sheet, but they are encouraged and pushed to try fiction-first solutions that are enhanced by the items on the sheet, such as creative uses of spells and class abilities.

Yes, please.

 

[overgeeked]

I do find 5e can be run very old school style, especially with folks who either don't know what's on their character sheet or don't much care.

Yeah. That’s the biggest hurdle I’ve found. It’s more a playstyle problem. I can house rule the game to hell and back, but if the players only want easy mode and to press buttons on their character sheet, no amount of house rules will help.

 

[Shardstone]

Yeah. That’s the biggest hurdle I’ve found. It’s more a playstyle problem. I can house rule the game to hell and back, but if the players only want easy mode and to press buttons on their character sheet, no amount of house rules will help.

This is my experience as well. Its the players IMO that shape how a 5E game feels, be that superheroic, old school, slice of life, pawn-stance, etc.