Do You Prefer to Play a Human PC When RPGing?

[Dannyalcatraz]

C'mon- lets be fair to Hairfoot. There IS a point there being made.

Elves (for example), if they existed, might not just be long-lived model-pretty humans with pointy ears of the D&D stereotype. Like Michael Moorcock's take on them (Melniboneans and others), they may have as little respect for humans as humans do for rats...or ants. Fictional depictions of them would stand as much a chance of being accurate as imperial-era European depictions of African cultures.

Their long lives would give them a very different perspective on EVERYTHING. They could be cold and alien or they could be eternal youths.

Etc.

But I think that human intellect can wrap around alien mindsets.

 

[fusangite]

C'mon- lets be fair to Hairfoot. There IS a point there being made.

Elves (for example), if they existed, might not just be long-lived model-pretty humans with pointy ears of the D&D stereotype.

But my point is that this is selective use of the RAW. Elves are defined both socially and physiologically in the rules. It makes no logical sense to throw out all the social properties of elves while retaining all the physiological properties.

To paraphrase an American constitutional argument made in a Law & Order episode I liked, "The Rules cannot prohibit that which they explicitly permit." The RAW comments clearly on what elf society looks like. Unless it can be shown that the rules are in direct conflict with themselves, the correct reading of any section of the rules is that reading which is in harmony with the other sections.

It is clear that elves' distinct physiology does not cause them to produce a society so alien as to be unknowable because the rules tell us what kind of society elves have.

If we are to throw out the parts of the elf sections in the rules that define their society, why not throw out the parts that define their physiology too?

 

[Hairfoot]

As with most discussions on ENWorld, our definition of a term is assumed to be the definition the term has in the game.The title of this thread is "Do You Prefer to Play a Human PC When RPGing?" You are claiming that our discussion is about something it is not.

But my OP was a tangent in the first place! Plenty of posters are discussing the topic of playing elves as written, but you're purposely engaging me on the topic of whether a human can 100% depict the attitudes of a fictional race with suprahuman qualities. Elves are an example. Substitute water elementals if it helps.

Oh, the hell with it. More cowbell!

 

[diaglo]

I'll call bullcrap on this one... I live in North Carolina... when you want a Coke, you ask for a Coke. When you want a Sprite, you ask for a Sprite. Anyone who wants a 7-UP but asks for a Coke is either an idiot or looking to start a fight.

yeah.. well go ummm..yourself. i do this .. and i ain't an idiot

diaglo "lives in Hotlanta" Ooi

 

[prosfilaes]

Indeed. The truths of non-existent species can never be known. I simply contend that the notion that real elves and dwarves would be similar to humans is equally valid to the notion that they would be alien. I err on the side of alien, because the differences in the game world (elf relative to human) are equal to differences in the real world (human relative to dog).

First, the differences aren't even close. A brief study would lead me to conclude that elves are the same species, as the two groups can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. Secondly, if you continue to talk about elves and dwarves, we're continuing to talk about D&D and friends, and how they are described in the books. In a D&D world, I'd assume that the elves and humans are related, or at least designed by the gods from the same crib notes.

Furthermore, even the question about aliens or AI in the real world isn't equally valid. It's merely unresolved; if and when we meet aliens or AI then and only then will a definitive resolution be availble.

 

[prosfilaes]

Elves are an example. Substitute water elementals if it helps.

But that's a horse of a different color. A creature that doesn't reproduce(?), that's amorphus in form, that doesn't live in a world remotely similar to ours, is going to be nigh incomprehsible to us. Which is why people don't try playing them, and why they don't make up a significant part of any roleplaying game I'm familar with. That's completely changing the field of discussion.

 

[Mallus]

But I think that human intellect can wrap around alien mindsets.

Examples of this please?

All the fictional aliens I can think of are used to explore and/or comment on the human condition, usually via the exaggeration of certain specific traits or behaviors. In practical terms, if a fictional character doesn't have something to say about human beings, what's the point? Can you have successful characters whose mindset and perspective all but rule out some degree of sympathy and indentification?

And I'm all for immersive roleplaying, but pioneering whole new modes of cognition for by Tuesday night D&D is well beyond mu abilities and the scope of my game...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You find it mostly in sci-fi. Isaac Asimov, James Blish, Larrry Niven, Stephen Donaldson, Greg Bear, Stephen Baxter and others routinely explore truly alien mindscapes.

Critters based on dark matter; aliens with chemistries other than carbon; intellects that last millions of years and create black holes to extend their lifespans; beings with 3 or more sexes; beings existing in 1, 2, 4, or more dimensions; machine or virtual life forms, creatures that lived in the first nanoseconds of the universe; the various parties in wars between carbon-cycle, hydrogen-cycle and methane-cycle beings...

They have names like Jarts or Outsiders, but often go unnamed.

In the examples I'm thinking of, the only way in which the aliens comment on the human condition is in their near-complete lack of humanity. Their most human aspects are their desires to survive.

They usually exist not to be sympathetic characters, but as opposition for the protagonists. That doesn't mean that they aren't fleshed out as living, thinking beings, however.

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Not Quite ....

Perhaps we should all play human commoners.

I actually have skills; I'll play an Expert, thank you.

-Samir

 

[Aeolius]

yeah.. well go ummm..yourself. i do this .. and i ain't an idiot

And here I figured you for a pre-corn syrup original Coca-Cola kinda guy

Granted, I hate scenes in movies, where someone walks up to a bar and says "give me a beer". C'mon... nobody does that! They ask for a particular brand. If I ask for a Budweiser and someone hands me a Miller Lite, they better be prepared to wear it.

anyway...back to the topic...

...A creature that doesn't reproduce(?), that's amorphus in form, that doesn't live in a world remotely similar to ours, is going to be nigh incomprehsible to us. Which is why people don't try playing them, and why they don't make up a significant part of any roleplaying game I'm familar with. That's completely changing the field of discussion.

That's why running an undersea campaign is so challenging (read that "fun"). It exercises one's willing suspension of disbelief.