Do you really like Star Wars?

[cybertalus]

I liked the original trilogy, ewoks and all (but I have a high tolerance for cute). I haven't cared for the prequel trilogy at all. The books, comics, and games I've liked to varying degrees. Games seem to fare better for me than anything else. I still drag out the Win98 remake of 1993's X-Wing every once in a while to blow of some steam by blowing up TIE fighters in my A-Wing. I also get a lot of replayability out of the Kyle Katarn games. Knights of the Old Republic was fun (and is the reason I now own SW d20), but not a game I've so far wanted to play more than once.

My least favorite non-movie product would be that comic book series where the Emperor comes back as a clone and Luke intentionally turns to the Dark Side because of some stupid idea about trying to defeat the Dark Side from the inside. Not even Splinter of the Mind's Eye was that bad. Though I haven't read any of the much-maligned Yuzhon Vong books yet, so my personal least favorite could change. I also didn't care for Tatooine Ghost, as it seemed to try too hard to be yet another bridge between the two movie trilogies.

If there's anything in broad terms that bothers me about Star Wars it's the way the Expanded Universe has led to the original Trilogy heroes lingering past their act of great heroism which transformed the world. The Knights of the Round Table, the Fellowship of the Ring, and probably a few others that people can name did their great epic deeds, changed the world, and then died, retired, or went off to some mystical place. The heroes of Star Wars keep hanging around, racking up a resume of heroism that threatens to encroach on that of long-running comic book superheroes.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

If there's anything in broad terms that bothers me about Star Wars it's the way the Expanded Universe has led to the original Trilogy heroes lingering past their act of great heroism which transformed the world. The Knights of the Round Table, the Fellowship of the Ring, and probably a few others that people can name did their great epic deeds, changed the world, and then died, retired, or went off to some mystical place. The heroes of Star Wars keep hanging around, racking up a resume of heroism that threatens to encroach on that of long-running comic book superheroes.

That is one thing that started to bug me with some of the novels. A few just felt like the same old thing happening again and again without any chance of fear or drama.

Its why I love the NJO. It put real fear that the outcome might not be perfect for once back into Star Wars. And at the same time, handed over the reigns of the galaxy to the new generation. Even though the old heroes won't be hanging up the towels(as reported by some of the previews of the next post-NJO book series), the center of them is on the Solo twins and their generation.

 

[WizarDru]

I so clearly remember seeing Star Wars on it's first run. Back then it wasn't A New Hope, it had its proper name -- STAR WARS.

That movie was so much fun! I mean, after about five years no absolutely no decent hero films, here it was -- good guys, bad guys, minimal plot, questionable acting, whopping great special effects.

I, too, dislike and resist the labeling of Star Wars as 'Episode 4' and 'A New Hope'.

However, five years of no decent hero films? I don't think I'd agree with that.

What about the Three Musketeers, the Four Muskeeters, King Kong, and Logan's Run. For pity's sake man, what about the GOLDEN VOYAGE of SINBAD?

 

[D+1]

Original trilogy. I read and enjoyed the Han Solo trilogy but no other SW ficiton. The whole of Star Wars kind of skewed off into directions I had no interest in. Even the original trilogy became harder and harder to really get into. For example, I saw Star Wars IN THE THEATER perhaps 150 times. I LOVED it. Empire, I lost accurate count at around 60 but well under 100. Jedi, only a few times in theaters and I found it VERY difficult to willingly accept it. There was a great deal I just did NOT like about Jedi, having a lot to do with Ewoks and a perceived targetting of SMALL children as the audience for the franchise, not the audience who originally latched onto SW and then grew older. But after a few years I suppose I made a certain peace with it.

But the rest of it? I ran the WEG SW RPG a few times. A good time was had by all (I put a LOT of energy into those campaign sessions and it burned me out), but I found it difficult to decide where/when to place the campaign in association with the events of the movies. The universe felt too tied to the events of the movies and the RPG material catered to the movies more than attempted to define a greater galaxy to run a campaign in.

I read none of the novels beyond the Solo books. They just didn't interest me, in part because I felt that they were NOT canon. They were all just someone elses RPG speculation.

And when the prequels finally came along... well it's difficult to put my disappointment into words. Suffice to say that they were NOT the same SW as the original trilogy, much as they wanted to be. There was none of the banter and adventurousness, it was somber, overcast for the viewer by knowledge of what was to come, and NOT well-plotted or paced. II was better than I, which gives me hope for III - but I'm going into III expecting disappointment so that I can be pleasantly surprised, rather than going in expecting greatness so that I can be bitterly disappointed - again.

SW was a great franchise that could have been Earth-shattering, but was instead sqandered by... lack of vision if you can believe it. I still recall reading an interview with Lucas after SW first came out. He was talking about how he was giving up a certain amount of control to others. Something along the lines of, "I've put up the basic castle walls and now I'm going to let others draw in all the gargoyles and stuff." At the time I thought that was a cool attitude. Now I see it as biggest mistake he could have made. SOMEBODY needed to maintain TOTAL creative control of the franchise and MOVE IT FORWARD, if it was indeed to be a worthwhile franchise.

I'd liken it to Rick Berman having control of Star Trek. Much as I have cried in the past that somebody ELSE needed to try to take Trek in a few new directions I have to give kudos to Paramount for understanding that you ultimately need to have ONE vision to follow and not allow it to be UNguided, or worse, guided by committee. Same with their fascist/Nazi protection of the Trek intellectual property. It may have been obnoxious at times but it DID keep the Trek universe in their full control, not to be muddied by casual licensing of the characters and settings. If Lucas did not want to maintain a position of full creative control of all things Star Wars, then he should have chosen someone else and handed over all his notebooks and said, "Let it be YOUR vision that defines Star Wars from this point onward."

I don't DISLIKE what Star Wars is, or has become, but I am rather disappointed in that it could have been so much better than a lot of it has been. The soul of Star Wars was sold for the money from merchandising tie-ins.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

]Suffice to say that they were NOT the same SW as the original trilogy, much as they wanted to be.

They were never SUPPOSED to be the same SW as the original trilogy, and IMO, they never tried to be. THAT is what most people's problem roots in. Everyone excepted the same kind of SW movies as the OT, but that's just not at all what they were ever going to be. Its such a completely different time in the SW Galaxy, that the same type of story is simply not even possible. Of course, as many have mentioned, the hype for it really caused much of the problems, but that was equally the fan's fault as it was for Lucasfilm.

The thing is, though, you CAN'T compare the prequels with the originals. They weren't meant to be, because they're completely different kinds of stories in a completely different time. Its like having a movie in the Dark Ages and then another movie after that about the Roman Empire and its fall. Sure, same world, probably some families and people are the same, but the time itself is so very different.

 

[npiccini]

I have had this argument/discussion again and again with a few of my friends that were OT fans only. As im sure many of you have had. One of the things that helps me accept (but not love) the new trilogy is the realization and not denial of the fact that New Hope was not a great movie. Many of us, assuming certain ages, saw New Hope when we were kids, maybe not 7 but maybe 12-15. That adolescent love affair with a groundbreaking movie really allowed us to forgive many of the shortcomings of that film. Consequently, we internalized the idea of how good the movie was (for us) and we compare the new films to that unreaslitic standard.

The wooden acting of Ep I and II stands right alongside the wooden acting of Luke Skywalker in Ep I. The Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks go hand in hand with the kid appeal of the Jawas and R2 and 3PO. IMO many people just brush this comparison off and point to acting like Han Solo's. Remember, we are talking about finding a relative unknown like Ford who went on to become an accomplished actor. What are the odds of that happening again? i think Lucas has tried to do that, albeit without success using Portman and Christianson.

I think hands down, Ep V is the best. There is no comparison anywhere to the drama that plays out between luke and vader in cloud city alongside the capture and freezing of Han, betrayal of Lando and overall gloom in the feeling at the end of that film. WOW.

One of the problems with the new trilogy IMO, is the lack of clear villian. The films do not have them, adn the one shot at them is cut in half at the bottom of a reactor. This makes the film more about the looming potential of the future villian, anakin, and it makes any drama involved in the climax battles fall short. Did anyone really care about the Dooku/Yoda duel? I know they tried to get us involved by telling us (in the middle of the battle btw) that Yoda was his trainer. But really, no one cared. We were more in awe at Yoda's saber skills (whole other thread). I expect that drama to get better in Ep III when anakin and obi-wan finally have it out. That will have some real drama to it. Lets jsut hope that Lucas doesnt job us out on that and make it a thirty second lightsaber battle. It should be a full twenty minutes like the luke vader duel in Ep VI. If its not, I for one, will feel completely ripped off.

One of my friends, an OT enthusiast, believes Lucas is a "one trick pony" and the luck he had hitting it with the first film is now obvious as each film gets more and more away from the drama and feel of the OT. Im not in agreement with that. But its strange isnt it that the one film most fans agree was the best, was not directed by Lucas?

Well, sorry for the rambling, but I have to admit, I normally wouldnt post to something like this, but all the previous posts were in such a good spirit and not bashing that I felt people could actually post their views without being attacked as flaming.

Looking forward to May 19, 2005!

 

[barsoomcore]

Star Wars is dull. It's pap. There's nothing interesting about it other than shiny images and loud noises.

Oh, and the best darn fight scene ever put in a film directed by a white guy (Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon versus Darth Maul).

Oh, and the first movie utterly transformed my entire life. I was nine. Being nine in 1977 was a pretty good thing to be.

Oh, and I will forever get shivers when I hear the Imperial March. Damn you, John Williams.

Oh, and the first movie rocked. And the second one has great dialogue ("I am NOT a committee!"). And the asteroid chase. And the third one has speeder bikes, and if you don't think speeder bikes are teh 1337, I don't understand you.

But I'm done with Star Wars. I'll wait and see what the reviews are like for Episode -1 (or should that be Episode 0?) -- if people who's tastes match mine like it, then I'll go. But honestly, after seeing "FrankenVader" in the trailer, I just can't get excited about this. It's a shallow world of shallow stories. There's fun here and there, and the first movie, taken in isolation, is a fine example of pulp fun, but the whole thing just isn't strong enough to support the weight that's placed upon it. There's no tragedy, there's no drama, there's no power to it.

There was when I was nine. There was when I nineteen. But there's not anymore.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Lets jsut hope that Lucas doesnt job us out on that and make it a thirty second lightsaber battle. It should be a full twenty minutes like the luke vader duel in Ep VI. If its not, I for one, will feel completely ripped off.

Note that the Luke/Vader duel in Cloud City is much much shorter than twenty minutes, but the intercutting with other scenes makes it seem much longer. With Anakin/Obi-Wan(from all reports) there won't be cutting away to other scenes. We will have the longest lightsaber duel ever. As of the last report I remember, the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight clocks in around 12 to 14 minutes straight.

And if you don't mind spoilers, follow this link:

http://www.theforce.net/episode3/jtf/duel.asp

 

[WizarDru]

As far as new trilogy hype is concerened, let's be honest: the trailer for episode I was AWESOME. Don't deny it. People watched it over and over again, dissecting it for subtle nuance, minute images and every nook and cranny. It knew it's target audience, and it catered to it with a laser-sharp talent.

The original Star Wars is a good film, and a good homage. Empire is easily the best of all them, to me, with its excellent character drama, and ewok or no ewoks, Jedi has what is quite likely the most spectacular visuals for a space battle ever commited to film.

The new trilogy lacks the same power...but it isn't without punch. The problem seems to be the lack of a commonality with the original trilogy, and the understanding that he owes the community nothing in regards to story expectations. My problem, such as it is, is that the ending of the first three episodes is something of a foregone conclusion, and the presentation of that conflict, up until this point, has been somewhat...lacking.

The new trilogy lacks the emotional cohesiveness of the old...and I think that npiccini nails it right on the head...there is NO clear villain. Douku is a good one, and the emperorer would be...if we actually saw him BEING a villain. So far, we've seen him manipulate slightly from behind the scenes...but that's not the same thing as Vader's in-your-face opposition. You FEARED Vader. He had Power. He intimidated men, killed them with HIS FREAKING MIND. Darth Maul was just a violent monster. Count Douku seemed more like a political rival to Yoda than an actual villain. He was just too darned charismatic. I love his portrayl in the Clone Wars TV show, though.

In short, I love Star Wars...but I'm not always thrilled with how Lucas seems to have forgotten WHAT I love about it. Ah well. The third trilogy will be over soon enough, and then life goes on.

 

[Dakkareth]

Being a 'young one' I have never fallen to the original Star Wars hype. I read the novelizations at some point and liked them enough to go and watch the movies. From the PoV of today the effects are not that inspiring, nor would I expect them to be, but after reading the story, the movies at many points failed to evoke the same reaction. The Empire Strikes Back is the best in that regard and IMO the best of the original trilogy. The new movies work for me, to a big degree because of the effects. I'm not a fan, but they're nice, solid fantasy movies. In short, they're just another movie taking place in a very interesting setting.