D&D 4E Do you really want Greyhawk and Dragonlance for 4e

[SSquirrel]

When Caramon went back in time and became the General would be a great time to start a campaign.

Yes, that is roughly 100 years after the Cataclysm and fits in that era I suggested would be perfect for the standard 4E PoL setting.

As far as re-reading the books goes, you can tell that Chronicles is their first series. Legends is better written and quite obviously so. The story is still great tho and that is what matters. One of the things that really stands out in the iffy category for me is more of a genre issue than just their writing tho. The stereotypes are so strong in Dragonlance that it's nearly impossible to imagine a dwarf who isn't a blowhard or an elf who doesn't have a stiff neck, etc. Like I said, it's more of a genre thing, but Dragonlance is definitely built on it's racial niches.

 

[AlioTheFool]

Well I agree with you there- the 4e books need work as far as flavor goes, but I don't agree that the only way to put flavor in a book is to "over-saturate" it with info about the topic.

White Wolf is really good at it in my opinion, maybe even the best. I can sit and read a white wolf book from cover to cover not once thinking it felt dry, yet at the same time they never give you the full answer- just enough to get me hooked and get my imagination going.

I have no experience with White Wolf's material. I don't disagree with you though. I like open-endedness too. There is a balance that can be struck between crunch/fluff, and while I haven't yet read the latest material, it seems WotC is getting there. I'm hearing fantastic reviews of the new Neverwinter Campaign Setting from guys who want extensive leeway.

i used to read the Dragonlance novels... I got really tired though of every book seeming to be about the heroes of the lance, or their kids.

Didn't ANYONE else do anything on Krynn?

Actually, the most recent stuff has nothing to do with the original cast. The Dark Disciple series was some of my favorite work in Dragonlance, and that had nothing to do with the originals. I even grew to like Mina more than Raistlin.

Yeah- mostly that was a joke, but I'd say a large portion possibly the majority (it's been a while since I read them) are about the Heroes or their kids (or someone interacting in some way with the heroes or their kids.)

It was enough that I just got bored of it.

I've been wanting to read the Chronicles again sometime since it's been like 15 years since I read them last. Wonder if they'll live up to my memory or seem juvenile now...

I read the Chronicles again about 2 years ago (at 34) and to me, they still hold up.

 

[Dice4Hire]

As far as re-reading the books goes, you can tell that Chronicles is their first series. Legends is better written and quite obviously so. The story is still great tho and that is what matters. One of the things that really stands out in the iffy category for me is more of a genre issue than just their writing tho. The stereotypes are so strong in Dragonlance that it's nearly impossible to imagine a dwarf who isn't a blowhard or an elf who doesn't have a stiff neck, etc. Like I said, it's more of a genre thing, but Dragonlance is definitely built on it's racial niches.

That is a bit of a strike against it, at least for me.

I like Dragonlance, and what they ahve done with a lot of the races and such, but it just feels too small for me. I like a world that is larger and more open.

 

[Dragonhelm]

I like Dragonlance, and what they ahve done with a lot of the races and such, but it just feels too small for me. I like a world that is larger and more open.

Would you be more inclined to play if they opened up the continent of Taladas for play as well?

Would having both Ansalon and Taladas ruin the setting's flavor?

 

[GreyLord]

My initial thoughts on Knights of Solamnia would be either a Paladin or Warlord class, with the different knighthoods being Paragon Paths.

I suppose instead it could be a new base class, the Knight of Solamnia, and they could choose to have a Paragon path of Sword or Rose...OR...perhaps have Rose as an optional Paragon path and have the Sword be a Theme they could integrate if they so choose.

For Wizards of High Sorcery, a similar idea, with the Apprenticeship or lower portion being Heroic tier, once they get to paragon they have to choose a paragon Path, that of the Black, White, or Red Robes.

Some of how I would think it could work out well.

 

[GameOgre]

Dragonlance and Greyhawk would both be cool setting for 4E. I do shudder to think of what foul world shaking event would tumble the Dragonlance world this time! Every new edition to D&D causes untold pain and suffering for those characters! I can hear then shouting now" no new Dragonlance! Please let us be!"

 

[Imperialus]

There i something that seems to bug me. Some people talk about just pulling out your old stuff and just using that. Well I ask this. What about all the new people who don't have access to the old stuff? Each setting brings something unique to the table that new fans of the game would enjoy.

I get tired of hearing the nostalgia excuse as well as the using your old stuff excuse. Some of the old material is rather expensive to get and hard to come buy. Also, that's not really how you sell a game. Do you really expect a newcomer to buy the rule books and then have to turn around and somehow find out about past campaign settings, and then actually finding them and spending lots of money to obtain them? That's too much work that people just aren't going to deal with.

I agree with you wholeheartedly here. This is why I play Retroclones. I have a fair number of older D&D books and modules but I was born in 81, and didn't start playing till 92. I have spent years slowly collecting D&D books that are often older than I am. It's expensive, sometimes frustrating, and very time consuming. I'm also an outlier and I know this. Lets face it the under 30 crowd isn't exactly overrepresented in the OSR scene, and the few of us that are there are for the most part got into it via retroclones.

Lets also not forget that those old books are well... old and pretty tough to replace if they get damaged. I mean I'm not going to shove my copy of Thieves Fortress of Badabaskor into my backpack and bring it on the bus for a light read. I don't even really like pulling my old Basic or Expert books out at the table. All it takes is one spilled drink and then it's back to Ebay.

Wizards really needs to learn something about it's campaign settings. The whole "we give the basics and you do the work" really isn't working anymore. Forgotten Realms is a testament to this. Go and take a look at Pathfinder's campaign setting Golarion. The setting i brilliant and it is rich in history and gives DM's an opportunity to run campaigns for years to come. Wizards needs to take some notes from these guys.

I would love to see a return of Dragonlance and Greyhawk, but I wouldn't want Wizards to screw it up. I would rather see Paizo work on those campaign settings.

Not really in 100% agreement with you here though, but that's more a playstyle preference thing I think. I like being given a pretty sketchy outline and then filling it in myself.

 

[Dykstrav]

What would you guys think about a 4e Taladas?

Or, what about a vision of Dragonlance where Ansalon is still the focus, but Taladas (and the fan continent of Adlatum) are easier to travel to, thereby offering more real estate to explore?

I don't know. If it was well-written and gave individual groups of PCs a chance to be heroes without tying them to existing NPCs or events, sure. But then again...

That sort of defeats the purpose. If you're going to do something new in a classic setting and ignore (or largely ignore) what has come before, why not make a new setting from the ground up? The fans of the classic setting get to enjoy the setting they like and everyone else gets a chance to stretch their legs a bit.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that 3.5 Dungeons & Dragon's Eberron setting and Pathfinder's Golarion setting were so well-received is because they were new. Sure, there are halflings and dragons and the basic good-versus-evil dichotomies in the pantheon and other tropes of the genre, but they didn't have decades of lore and powerful NPCs to dominate the player's concepts of what the setting can or should be.

There's a lot to be said about getting in on a new setting from the ground up. New setting have a certain charm, and being one of the first people to play it carries a sort of geek credibility. I know of several players who can fondly recall where and when they purchased their copy of Forgotten Realm's "old grey box" or the original Dragonlance adventures. You don't get the same sense of investment in the setting from players who came in to the Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance settings in the late nineties.

Sorry that I'm rambling a bit... In short, new settings are pretty damned cool. I loved all the settings published in the 2E era, although I never played all of them. I'll always come back to the classics, but I want to see new stuff too.

 

[southernmagnus]

DL Reboot.

I'd like to see a Dragonlance reboot, set in chronicles. There's so much fluff that turns crunchy. (Does that make sense?)

So many awesome concepts:
The re-emergence of clerical/divine power.

Low level Wizards having to pass a potentially deadly initiation into an alignment based order.

Towers of Sorcery factions having a rivalry/cooperation dynamic (original Hogwarts, anyone?)

The moons waxing and waning to give spellcasters more power.

Knights of Solamnia, the first "prestige" class I ever aspired to.

Having to sneak through vast swaths of land occupied by not just random monsters, but a hostile, organized, and evil army.

And is there a cooler name for an evil deity than Takhisis?

Add some new concepts, and viola: just an awesome campaign setting.

 

[AlioTheFool]

I'd like to see a Dragonlance reboot, set in chronicles. There's so much fluff that turns crunchy. (Does that make sense?)

So many awesome concepts:
The re-emergence of clerical/divine power.

Low level Wizards having to pass a potentially deadly initiation into an alignment based order.

Towers of Sorcery factions having a rivalry/cooperation dynamic (original Hogwarts, anyone?)

The moons waxing and waning to give spellcasters more power.

Knights of Solamnia, the first "prestige" class I ever aspired to.

Having to sneak through vast swaths of land occupied by not just random monsters, but a hostile, organized, and evil army.

And is there a cooler name for an evil deity than Takhisis?

Add some new concepts, and viola: just an awesome campaign setting.

I was thinking about this yesterday myself. Why not go with a Dark Sun-style reboot of the original series. Create a campaign setting focused on the early days of the War of the Lance, and let players base themselves in that era. Provide 4E-updated stats for the Companions as example characters, but don't require that those characters exist at all in the world of Krynn 4E.

Since the advent of 4E I've always been an advocate of setting the campaign era in the Age of Mortals, which I think was a pretty cool era in Dragonlance (thanks in large part to Margaret Weis' wonderful Mina-based books- Dragons of Summer Flame, War of Souls trilogy, Dark Disciple trilogy). It doesn't require any further cataclysms either. However, maybe the Dark Sun idea was a good one. It would surely remove the "we're just bit players in the Companions' story" stigma of the setting.

I love the material in Dragonlance. Wizards of High Sorcery, Moon-based magic, the interplay of the pantheon without any god being in complete control. Some would argue that Takhisis was overpowering, but even though she played a prominent position in some cataclysmic wars, even the gods not necessarily in "opposition" to her were still imploring their followers to pursue that god's own ends. Sacrifice plays a major role in the setting as well, even as a mechanic (such as wizardly power at the expense of some form of health-your dump stat MATTERS in Dragonlance).

The only anti-Dragonlance argument I can completely get behind is the anti-kender sentiment. I've been fortunate enough to have never had to deal with the "jerk kender player" but I understand that many have. No one at the table should have reign to be a jerk to co-players. I understand the innocent intent behind kender, but clearly it doesn't play like that at many tables. That would need to be addressed in a 4E version, even if it means a complete nerf of the race's fluff.