D&D (2024) Do you see Fighter players at your own table?

[Emberashh]

How do you roll a prof with no prof?

...its a skill check.

So roll 2d20 take the lowest nothing adds and you aren’t saying the DC.
I can’t imagine you calling out other DMs for being bad at improv if this is what you got.

I don't have to tell you the DC, but by context it would be fair to assume Id say 30.

You're trying to replicate a spell by waving a sword around. All you're really doing is attempting to cast the spell. That is an Arcana check.

What does "no mods" mean? Is this you just saying the player can't use anything that can possibly cause them to reach DC 30?

Yes.

I think he just means “I said I can’t tell you it’s impossible and I don’t like the DCs being between 5 and 30 and a fighter can take a feat for a skill prof and expertise so at level 17 they have 12 plus stat to that roll so I need to make something up where that can’t happen”

This was predictable.

I would like you to point out where in Improvise Action's text it says you're guaranteed a particular outcome.

If you're a Martial attempting to literally cast a spell by just waving your sword around, you aren't going to get that outcome.

Now if you were a half-caster, then theres room to say yes, you can add your modifiers, because by virtue of being at least part caster you don't need to make a substantive pitch to justify doing something you can already do.

And Im also going to just sit back and relish in the sheer irony of trying to say Im bad at Improv when the example in question is "I wave my sword around and cast a spell i get that right????"

 

[Incenjucar]

So the rule does not actually help, thanks for clarifying.

 

[HammerMan]

...its a skill check.

So skill check is my int+ prof +expertise. So let’s give me a 15 int for +2 and at level 17 that is +12 prof/xp so +14

I don't have to tell you the DC, but by context it would be fair to assume Id say 30.

I mean you don’t have to but if you don’t we have nothing to talk about

You're trying to replicate a spell by waving a sword around. All you're really doing is attempting to cast the spell. That is an Arcana check.

So all the modifiers for a stat+skill

Yes.

So that is the same as saying you can’t do it. Just with extra steps.

This was predictable.

I would like you to point out where in Improvise Action's text it says you're guaranteed a particular outcome.

If you're a Martial attempting to literally cast a spell by just waving your sword around, you aren't going to get that outcome.

Now if you were a half-caster, then theres room to say yes, you can add your modifiers, because by virtue of being at least part caster you don't need to make a substantive pitch to justify doing something you can already do.

And Im also going to just sit back and relish in the sheer irony of trying to say Im bad at Improv when the example in question is "I wave my sword around and cast a spell i get that right????"

You said a DM can’t rule something can’t be done just the DC

And in fact, Id argue that actually, DMs who don't grant the request, and adjudicate a rulling to determine success or failure, they are deliberately breaking the rule.

"The only limits are your imagination and your characters abilith scores".

DM has no actual say on whats permissible, only what is called for for success, which is not the same thing.

 

[HammerMan]

I delete this when I copied above cause multi quote wasn’t working in my phone

 

[Incenjucar]

I wonder if this used car salesman con routine being used on young and inexperienced people is why there are so many fighters in DDI.

 

[HammerMan]

I wonder if this used car salesman con routine being used on young and inexperienced people is why there are so many fighters in DDI.

Dont insult used cars salesmen. They normally are good con men of nothing else. A lot are pretty good at fixing cars too

 

[Yaarel]

Actually your poll was for just the last year. Since campaigns can last years, your poll skews things a bit

Very many? How do you get that from the poll?

Even if 10%, of millions of players that is very many. A safe bet might be 25%. Since ENWorld has a high "grognard" frequency, it might be about 33% of players, after all, who never see the nonmagical Fighter. They might be thinking Superhero movies when coming up with Fighter character concepts.

To be clear, the nonmagical Fighter is beloved, and popular, and isnt going anywhere. I am saying, there are very many players who utilize the Fighter class for magical character concepts.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

No the fight is if you want it.
No one says “hey if we get a warlord or sword sage it doesn’t have to be called fighter” and still it goes in for days trying “explain” why we don’t need more

I’m not following your argument, but I stand by my statement. I’ve seen it go both ways, I’m pretty sure in this very thread!

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I am saying, there are very many players who utilize the Fighter class for magical character concepts.

That is not all you said though is it. I don’t disagree with this statement. Look at what I quoted. That is what I disagreed with

 

[Emberashh]

So the rule does not actually help, thanks for clarifying.

So much bad faith its incredible.

Make up a dumb, obviously unworkable example and then pitch a fit when the rules don't let you just do whatever you want.

So skill check is my int+ prof +expertise. So let’s give me a 15 int for +2 and at level 17 that is +12 prof/xp so +14

No, your skill check is 1d20. You don't get to determine what is used. Do I need to quote the rules again?

Improvising an Action
Your character can do things not covered by the actions in this chapter, such as breaking down doors, intimidating enemies, sensing weaknesses in magical defenses, or calling for a parley with a foe. The only limits to the actions you can attempt are your imagination and your character's ability scores. See the descriptions of the ability scores in chapter 7 for inspiration as you improvise.

When you describe an action not detailed elsewhere in the rules, the DM tells you whether that action is possible and what kind of roll you need to make, if any, to determine success or failure.

Source: PHB, page 193

I mean, hell, it is DND; I shouldn't expect anybody to actually read the books.

So that is the same as saying you can’t do it. Just with extra steps.

Neither of you have made an actual pitch for how your Martial accomplishes casting Wish or Prismatic Wall other than "herp derp I wave my sword around".

You want better results, actually try to explain what you want to do in good faith.

If you cannot do that, you have zero right to sit there and act like a victim when you're not given the outcome you wanted.

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And mind, its also incredibly bad faith to be acting like what you people have been begging for across two different topics is the effects of naughty word Wish or Prismatic Wall and that being denied that is like being denied a naughty word backflip.