Dodkong minions

[Casimir Liber]

So which would you rather use for the Stone Giant Wight, Huge undead, neutral evil or Huge undead (stone giant), neutral evil?

It makes little difference to me, so pick one and I'll deblue the Enworld version and add it to the Index.

the latter

 

[Casimir Liber]

So what stats from earlier editions are there for the Dodkong, or the crown of Obadai for that matter?

All I could find was a mention of it (or should I say him) being a "The Dodkong (male lich stone giant sorcerer 10), master in Cairnheim" line in Underdark (2003).

That's not much to go on, and is rather low-powered for a 3E D&D big bad.

It's not surprising the Dodkong keeps a low profile, as Faerûn is jammed with epic level PCs a 10th-level giant lich would be nothing but a speedbump to.

there is very little as far as I can tell - the areas were sketched out in 3.5e material as a bare-bones overview but not much wirtten in detail (nor any statblock) leading to many homebrewed versions

 

[dave2008]

@Cleon
These are the two most informative post I have seen about the Dodking:

1. Forgotten Realms Wiki: Dodkong
2. Sage Advice: What is the Dodkong's Goal

But as @Casimir Liber stated, no stats for the Dodkong or the Crown.

 

[Cleon]

the latter

After spending the night on it, I favour sticking to the tagless Huge undead, neutral evil and forgetting about a giant or stone giant tag.

A ranger with Favoured Enemy (human) doesn't get benefits against a Ghoul that was created from a human corpse, and a human bane weapon wouldn't affect that undead, so why would one particular undead giant be vulnerable against attacks designed to affect living giants? Those weapons and spells would gain no extra benefits against all the other types of undead giant, after all. A dwarven thrower doesn't do extra damage against a zombie ogre after all.

My original problem was whether the Dodkong could actually use the crown of Obadai in dave2008's old version, but that concern could be addressed by tweaking the crown rather than the Dodkong.

Tweaking the item qualifier line to "(requires attunement by a stone giant, living or undead)" would do the trick.

 

[Cleon]

there is very little as far as I can tell - the areas were sketched out in 3.5e material as a bare-bones overview but not much wirtten in detail (nor any statblock) leading to many homebrewed versions

@Cleon
These are the two most informative post I have seen about the Dodking:

1. Forgotten Realms Wiki: Dodkong
2. Sage Advice: What is the Dodkong's Goal

But as @Casimir Liber stated, no stats for the Dodkong or the Crown.

So all we know about him is the Underdark info that he's a lich and 10th level sorcerer whose crown of Obadai is a stone giant artifact with undefined powers over the undead?

Well not completely undefined. It can turn a stone giant into a lich and can be used with "ancient giant rituals" to create Dodforers (literally Death Chiefs), a "special kind of undead stone giant" whose stats are even less defined than the Dodkong.

At least we know the Dodkong is a sorcerer lich which has a template in 3E!

The only game rules we have about Dodforers is that there's twenty of them in Cairnheim village and their chief, Koenig Serpentspine, is a male undead stone giant ranger 9.

ADDITION: The Grand History of the Realms entry for 160 DR Year of the Stone Giant has:

A cairn (undead stone giant) called the Dodkong, or “King of Death,” appears from the dark below. On his arrival, he gathers the stone giant clans and refounds the kingdom of Nedeheim as Cairnheim.​

There is an undead stone giant called a Cairn in 2E AD&D in Giants from the Grave by Gregory W. Detwiler from Dragon #254 (December 1998).

The traits of that undead giant are a bit different from a Wight though: they don't have a draining touch and are much harder to damage with weapons (+2 or better weapon to hit) and somewhat better AC than a living Stone Giant. Two points better to be precise (AC 0 vs –2).

They do have an interesting telepathic ability:

Cairns have a keen telepathic sense that enables them to tell when someone comes near even when that person is silent and/or invisible. They make good use of this when waiting for victims in ambush positions, closing their bright, betraying eyes and blending in with the rocky background until the intruders come close enough to attack. Because of the giant’s stony appearance, victims have a –5 penalty to their surprise rolls when they encounter a cairn underground. Often the first hint of trouble is when large boulders start whizzing past them​

Maybe do something with that?

Apart from that, they're a hair tougher (HD 15 instead of 14 +1-3 hp) and do more damage (2d8+9 weapon instead of 2d6+8 weapon, 3d12 rocks versus 3d10 rocks) and for some reason can chuck rocks a bit farther (350 yards, 50 more than a 2E stone giant's 300) but are too clumsy to have Rock Catching.

Oh, and they have the standard undead immunities and are unaffected by cold- and earth-based attacks (apart from a couple of earth spells which soften their skin for 10 rounds: rock to flesh makes them AC 0 (2 points worse), while rock to mud makes them AC 7 (9 points worse!).

 

[Cleon]

Hmm… I'm wondering whether we should use the name "Cairn" in the Stone Giant Wight?

If the Dodkong is technically a Lich according to Underdark, but is called a Cairn in Grand History of the Realms, then perhaps in Faerûn the word Cairn is just a generic term for an an undead stone giant instead of, or in addition to, a specific type of undead stone giant.

So how about renaming the SGW to Cairn Wight (Undead Stone Giant), and making its incorporeal cousin a Cairn Wraith (Undead Stone Giant)?

Speaking of the Stone Giant Wraith, can we continue working on that rather than fussing over whether to put a (giant) tag in the "Cairn Wight", stoneless or otherwise?

I suspect The Dodkong would be an end-of-campaign boss battle, so there's no hurry to complete it.

 

[Cleon]

Oh, and they have the standard undead immunities and are unaffected by cold- and earth-based attacks (apart from a couple of earth spells which soften their skin for 10 rounds: rock to flesh makes them AC 0 (2 points worse), while rock to mud makes them AC 7 (9 points worse!).

Oh, I forgot one trait of the Dragon #254 Cairn:

"although sunlight does not harm these creatures, they abhor and actively avoid it"​

So they don't have Sunlight Sensitivity like a 5E Wight.

The Ecology section of their entry also mentions they have the common undead flavour of natural animals sensing and shunning them, and vegetation near their lairs (a quarter mile radius) "withers in a matter of months," although this may not be noticeable as Cairns are isolationists* who prefer to dwell in mountain caverns with nothing but snow and bare rock around.

* Which reminds me. The Dragon's Bestiary Cairn "never dwell in groups of more than three, however, and even these small gatherings are rare. Undeath brings with it a sense of isolation and desire for solitude. Some cairns deliberately distance themselves from their former clans to eliminate all possibility that they will return and destroy their old families in a jealous rage at the fact that they are still alive."

That's quite different to the Dodkong, whose Cairns, the "Dead Chiefs", help rule a community of living Stone Giants and extends his influences over their neighbours.

 

[Casimir Liber]

Ok - I am wondering where the 10th level sorceror note came from (?)

Can rename them all Cairn Wight/Wraith etc. Will drop the (stone giant) tags as teh subtypes generally relate to monster types and don't cross.


So, to mimic that telepathy, could give them

Detect Life. The cairn wight can [sense/pick up the aura of] creatures within 60 feet that aren't constructs or undead. It knows the general direction only.


I've also made a statblock for Koenig Serpentspine too (playing around with ranger abilities)

 

[Cleon]

Ok - I am wondering where the 10th level sorceror note came from (?)

Can rename them all Cairn Wight/Wraith etc. Will drop the (stone giant) tags as teh subtypes generally relate to monster types and don't cross.

Updating the Cairn Wight (Undead Stone Giant), and Cairn Wraith (Undead Stone Giant).

So, to mimic that telepathy, could give them

Detect Life. The cairn wight can [sense/pick up the aura of] creatures within 60 feet that aren't constructs or undead. It knows the general direction only.

The original text doesn't specify a range, but there is some implication it is MUCH longer than 60 feet:

Cairns have a keen telepathic sense that enables them to tell when someone comes near even when that person is silent and/or invisible. They make good use of this when waiting for victims in ambush positions, closing their bright, betraying eyes and blending in with the rocky background until the intruders come close enough to attack. Because of the giant’s stony appearance, victims have a –5 penalty to their surprise rolls when they encounter a cairn underground. Often the first hint of trouble is when large boulders start whizzing past them, hurled with incredible force (3d12 hp damage instead of 3d10 for live stone giants) to a range of 350 yards.​

If the Cairn is using its telepathic sense to detect the creatures it's hurling rocks at "to a range of 350 yards," the undead giant's telepathic sense has to warn it of an intruder's presence at least 1050 feet away.

Maybe it's a territorial thing? There's mention of it wilting plants within a quarter mile of its lair, so perhaps it senses the "life" of an intelligent creature who enters that radius and is alerted? Possibly 1,200 feet or 1,500 feet rather than the 1,320 feet of an actual quarter-mile? Those two numbers are close enough to a couple of furlongs for our purposes.

The telepathic sense doesn't have to be quite that long ranged, since 5E Stone Giants don't have the better-than-some-catapult rock range of the AD&D versions.

If it were, say, 300 feet it's still more than the 240 ft. range of a Stone Giant's rocks.

 

[dave2008]

I started updating the Dodkong as discussed, but I'm not finished yet and my lunch break is over! However, I did want to note that I am adding a "raise dead" ability to the Crown of Obadai as that is one ability I actually found mentioned in my research, My question for you (@Cleon & @Casimir Liber) is: should this ability just be able to raise dead giants or humanoids too, or any creature? Any thoughts?