does anyone else think half-orcs get gypped?

[AbeTheGnome]

In D&D melee combat, strength is by far and away the most important stat. It affects to hit chance and damage. It also affects grapples, bull rushes, disarm, sunder, overruns, and other special options.

More strength is better. Half-orcs get the most strengh of the races in the PHB. They are going to be the best in melee combat (on offense at least).

In a hack and slash game, where you want to see how how many enemies your individual character slays, you want to be a half-orc.

and in a non-hack-n-slash game, the half-orc is useless. different people play different games. i run skill-intensive, RP-heavy campaigns, where combat makes up about 20% of the game, if that. in any situation besides combat, half-orcs get the short end of the stick. elves get bonuses to spot, listen, and search and that neat secret doorway thing. gnomes get bonuses to alchemy checks and listen checks. halflings get bonuses to climb, listen, jump, and move silently. dwarves get appraise bonuses, craft bonuses, and stonecunning. even half-elves get bonuses to gather info and diplomacy. yes, the half-orc is a melee machine, and if all you're doing in your game is picking fights with BBEGs, you'll have a good time playing one. if not, you're screwed.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

But it's really only a marginal benefit overall that will ultimately become less important as the characters level up and gain other means of getting that extra +1 to hit and damage (+ a bit more if power attacking with a 2-handed weapon).

In my experience, marginal bonuses to hit are almost always important. Every little bit you can squeeze out. It helps the primary attack against high-AC opponents, and it helps the iterative attacks in cases where the primary is missing only on a 1. Even at high levels, the fighters will still "miss by 1" sometimes.

 

[Seeten]

Terribly limited situation? You must be playing a different type of game than what I do. Across multiple daily encounters with numerous attack rolls (and opposed Strength checks of various types), the additional Strength bonus can really add up both in successful attacks and damage dealt.

This doesn't include other Strength related activities that may be required out of combat (including encumbrance).

I must be playing a different game than all of you.

In my games, the Clerics are casting game breaking spells, the Mages tossing game breaking spells, and the Half-Orc Barbarians are running around the battlefield trying desperately to get a swing in before the next guy explodes in a shower of fire and lightning. The mage has a 22 int, if he was a half-orc, that'd be an 18 int, by the by, and I guess while in some games those spells make no difference, last I checked, if I add up a scorching ray, fireball, and magic missile, it does a whole messload more damage than our "half-orc with 2 strength more than the dwarf" in our powergamer example.

Also, I am not saying I'm not a powergamer, I most certainly am, and thats why I invariably played elf in 2nd ed, and Human in 3rd.

Half-Orc Barbarian I got stuck with in a current campaign, and their pure suck factor is off the charts.

 

[Thurbane]

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't say that 1/2 Orcs are horribly unerpowered copmpared to other PHB races, but I would say that they are both mechanically and flavour-wise poor compared to the abilities of the other "standard" races. (Note: in my own campaign I drop the Int penalty, and give them a racial bonus to Intimidate).

 

[KarinsDad]

more damage from a high STR score does not a good rogue make. the ability to hide and move silently does, and those things come from skill points. while one skill point per level may not break a character, it certainly doesn't make things any easier to make a viable PC in a skill-intensive class.

It depends on the role of the Rogue.

But, 8 skill points per level is still a LOT.

Hide, Move Silently, Search, Spot, and Listen all maxed out.

That still leaves 3 skill ranks per level for a variety of other skills.


Rogues get in combat just like everyone else, but they are totally dependent on their combat skills. They have no spells.

 

[KarinsDad]

I must be playing a different game than all of you.

In my games, the Clerics are casting game breaking spells, the Mages tossing game breaking spells, and the Half-Orc Barbarians are running around the battlefield trying desperately to get a swing in before the next guy explodes in a shower of fire and lightning.

If your PC Clerics and Mages are exploding the opposition that the Half-Orc Barbarian is fighting, it is not the Barbarian with the problem.

This sounds like a player issue, not a game issue.

 

[Seeten]

I could say the same things about many of your posts, but I wont. In short, the dmg a barbarian does is not equal to the damage of mages or psions or clerics, no matter who you try to blame it on, the people I play with, or not.

You know why people dont claim Fighters are the most powerful class in D&D? Because they arent.

Penalizing races that make good fighters is ridiculous. I'm done with this thread. You're entitled to your opinions, and welcome to them also. I don't share them.

 

[Endur]

I must be playing a different game than all of you.

Half-Orc Barbarian I got stuck with in a current campaign, and their pure suck factor is off the charts.

Sounds like a different game.

I played a half-orc barbarian with a 20 str at 1st level. Useless mental stats, but for his first combat of the day (rage) he had a 24 str. That meant +7 to hit with his greatsword for 2d6 +2 pa +10 str = 2d6 +12 damage or average 19 damage.

The balanced dwarven fighter had a +4 to hit with damage of 1d10 +2 or average 7.5.

The difference on offense was incredibly noticable. As the levels increase, add some buff spells from party casters on the half-orc barbarian, and the damage really goes up (Greater magic Weapon, Bulls Strength, Prayer, Bardic songs) and combine with cleave and great cleave and who needs fireball.

 

[Thurbane]

I played a half-orc barbarian with a 20 str at 1st level. Useless mental stats, but for his first combat of the day (rage) he had a 24 str. That meant +7 to hit with his greatsword for 2d6 +2 pa +10 str = 2d6 +12 damage or average 19 damage.

Well, for starters, comparing Barbarians of any race to Fighters is literally apples and oranges.

Let me do my own comparison here:

A.) 1st lvl 1/2 Orc Barb, 20 STR (24 while raging), Power Attack; greatsword

B.) 1st lvl Human Barb, 18 STR (22 while raging), Power Attack, Cleave (human bonus feat); greatsword

While raging, A strikes at +8, +7 if using PA, and hits for 2d6+10 (2d6+12 for PA).

Same situation, B strikes at +7, +6 if using PA, and hits for 2d6+9 (2d6 +11 for PA).

(This assumes I haven't botched any calculations).

Oh, and if B manages to drop his target, he also gets a free attack on another adjascent enemy...

 

[Legildur]

Half-Orc Barbarian I got stuck with in a current campaign, and their pure suck factor is off the charts.

Sounds to me like the style of play doesn't suit you. Barbarians are a lot of fun. Admittedly, most of my 3.x edition play has been in the sub 15th level range.