Does anyone else think it is ridiculous that Sorcerers use components and such?

[Jack Daniel]

Well I have to agree that sorcerers should have to cast the same way as wizards. Why? Because they're both (and here's today's vocabulary word, boys and girls) arcane spellcasters. What is an arcane spell? A one-shot magical effect brought to life by channeling some anomalous magical energy through verbal, somatic, & material components, possibly with the help of an arcane focus. Where that energy is stored (temporarily in the intellect or permanently in the personality) is irrelevant to how the spell is cast -- sorcerers cast spells, and doing anything to the class that makes them more like psionic manifesters cheapens both sorcerers and psions.

 

[Quickbeam]

We've Rule Zeroed spell components for sorcerers in our group, but hadn't settled on a satisfactory system for cost or focus yet. I really like the idea of spell fetishes or arcane focus items, though.

Nonetheless, I agree with those who say sorcerers have an innate gift for magic, and IMO spell components breaks with that concept. In my mind, the first time a sorc casts a spell, it's purely by accident...or at least without directed thought set on creating a spell effect. Imagine Carrie White from Stephen King's Carrie if you will -- that's the type of magical ability discovery I see transpiring with sorcerers. Besides, it's unlikely they'd ever stumble onto the correct combination of material components, gestures and phrases necessary to trigger a spell by happenstance. In other words, sorcerers would never know the natural powers they possessed unless they spent time studying which components were required to cast spells. That sounds like a wizard to me.

And as for Jack Daniel's comments, I will simply say that arcane could be construed as spells cast without divine providence. I understand you take arcane to mean "must use spell components" but that's your interpretation...which is perfectly reasonable. Our group simply prefers a greater distinction in how wizards cast their spells when compared to sorcs, and as such see arcane spells as those not obtained through prayer.

 

[rootbeergnome]

Re: Alternate method

Hey Rootbeer,

I don't like components for sorcerers either, but their still has to be that balance. Since sorcerers don't know how they cast magic, have them use a focal object of, say, a personal possesion with strong sentimental attatchments. Say a player is playing a six-year-old girl sorc. Her focal object might be her teddy bear, and though she doesn't realize it, she can only cast magic with it. Hell, she'll eventually outgrow it. Still not balanced? give it a chance for spell failure based on how long she's had it.

Hey there Flying Monkey Style,

I dont really see components as being much of a balancing factor most of the time. How often does a DM look at you and say "Im sorry, you can't cast sleep you forgot to buy sand or crickets and you are on the deck of a ship at sea" Material components are only a balancing factor when using diamond dust or something similar to cast stoneskin, inexpensive components are there to add flavor to the wizard's method of casting. You could say that in order for sorcerers to cast such an expensive spell, they could take Constitution damage as the magic is fueled by the body of the sorcerer himself. Or you could have an xp cost, there are many other ways that this could be balanced and still maintain the flavor of sorcerers.

--RB Gnome

 

[Flying Monkey Style]

Yeah, I know, Rootbeer. Personally, I woudn't even bother worrying about the components unless its like an extremely rare ten-foot diamond statue.

But I just like to add a little viariety to the way things are done and looked at.

Personally, I think every campaign should have at least one minor change to the mechanics, just for flavor. But I think I've mentioned this one to you before.

 

[Desdichado]

Jack Daniels:
Well I have to agree that sorcerers should have to cast the same way as wizards. Why? Because they're both (and here's today's vocabulary word, boys and girls) arcane spellcasters. What is an arcane spell? A one-shot magical effect brought to life by channeling some anomalous magical energy through verbal, somatic, & material components, possibly with the help of an arcane focus. Where that energy is stored (temporarily in the intellect or permanently in the personality) is irrelevant to how the spell is cast -- sorcerers cast spells, and doing anything to the class that makes them more like psionic manifesters cheapens both sorcerers and psions.

That's lovely. Now, for the rest of us who don't subscribe to your definition of arcane spellcaster, and who feel like the sorceror is too much like the wizard (and not enough like the psion, who really embodies the concept of the sorceror better than the sorceror itself does) I guess we're just wrong somehow.

 

[uv23]

[/color]
That's lovely. Now, for the rest of us who don't subscribe to your definition of arcane spellcaster, and who feel like the sorceror is too much like the wizard (and not enough like the psion, who really embodies the concept of the sorceror better than the sorceror itself does) I guess we're just wrong somehow.

This is a very relevant point. While the source of a psion's power and the source of a sorcerer's power are very different, the means by which they manifest that power is much closer than between the sorcerer and the wizard IMO. So there is no "cheapening" going on.

 

[Desdichado]

Cheapening of the psion doesn't come about because of a class that has the concept of the sorceror, at least. It possibly comes along because psionics works too much like magic now, though. That's a different issue (and completely subjective. Still, see my review of The Psionics Handbook on the ENWorld site...)

 

[Voadam]

Re: Re: Alternate method

Hey there Flying Monkey Style,

I dont really see components as being much of a balancing factor most of the time. How often does a DM look at you and say "Im sorry, you can't cast sleep you forgot to buy sand or crickets and you are on the deck of a ship at sea" Material components are only a balancing factor when using diamond dust or something similar to cast stoneskin, inexpensive components are there to add flavor to the wizard's method of casting. You could say that in order for sorcerers to cast such an expensive spell, they could take Constitution damage as the magic is fueled by the body of the sorcerer himself. Or you could have an xp cost, there are many other ways that this could be balanced and still maintain the flavor of sorcerers.

--RB Gnome

Well that depends on your DM and the game he is running. I run material components quite strictly and I've had a player actually saying things like "all right! a beach, What color is the sand, one more shade and I can cast color spray." Previous editions required 3 different colors of sand for the spell. Oh and the bane of the adventuring diviner, a live carp for identify (previous editions again).

 

[Flying Monkey Style]

Voadam,

I guess how tightly you control the components really depends on wether you're running a low-power campaign or not. It's easier to keep the spellcasters in check if hold such restrictions on them, although it also makes for more bookwork. I like low-power campaigns, but I tend to prefer other restrictions like fewer magical items, slow character advancement, and tougher CR levels.

But I'm more of a player than I am a DM.

 

[rootbeergnome]

Re: Re: Re: Alternate method

Well that depends on your DM and the game he is running. I run material components quite strictly and I've had a player actually saying things like "all right! a beach, What color is the sand, one more shade and I can cast color spray." Previous editions required 3 different colors of sand for the spell. Oh and the bane of the adventuring diviner, a live carp for identify (previous editions again).

Yeah, but I normally don't get to play much. More often than not I am the DM so I am more or less stating the way I run my games. I do like the flavor of material components, don't get me wrong on that. I just don't like them being used for Sorcerers in my game. I have not yet had any issues in any of my games with sorcerers using expensive material components. Also, I think it would seriously slow down the game for someone to have to fish for a carp or whatever for a component, so I usually leave the details up to the player. If the player of a Wizard wants to talk about and openly use his material components and describe what they are, then more power to him, but I don't require it. This is only in my game and IMHO, and everyone else is entitled to their opinion as well (even if they stink jk)

--RB Gnome