Does anyone miss the generic cleric?

[Khorod]

Lord of the Rings also lacked anything I would call a Cleric.

Personally, I find have the supernatural be real makes things like religion very fun to play with, at least on the philosophical level. As far as I'm concerned, if you want a generic cleric you may as well just let Wizards have access to healing magic, and let the player decide if his wizard is a spellcaster or a miracle-working priest. (Like in Arcana Unearthed).

And in my campaigns, I have multiple languages, trade-relations, and so on to a degree that the players need to make a serious decision about which languages they know to maximize regional communication or find someone who speaks a shared language wherever they go. It doesn't need to be exhaustive- a few paragraphs on these subjects is what makes the campaign setting come alive.

The old generic cleric had a problem- it was a healer with limited combat abilities. And because it was generic, it had zero flavor to play off of. The only 2E clerics I or anyone I knew were interested in actually playing were the ones house-ruled into having an actual purpose to exist.

 

[WayneLigon]

Hmm. I've always had detailed religions in my games, as far back as OD&D. Usually there was some benefit and some drawback to each god.

I personally like the idea of the DM having to come up with all that. But then I always agreed with the blurb about the Greyhawk setting saying that the booklet represented the minimum amount of work a good campaign should have put into it.

 

[Tallok]

Yeah, I find gods very important to clerics, as, in my game, clerics get their power from gods, and you can't vey well have conflicting clerics if they don't even have a god to follow, I understand that it would work, but it ruins, IMO, the flavor of the cleric

 

[Norfleet]

I thought the original flavor of cleric was "Mobile First Aid Station"?

 

[hong]

In the end, the D&D pantheon doesn't have a real big affect on our game (except that one time we had Bahamut show up and shower us with gifts... that was cool ),

So, would a platinum shower be ten times better than a golden shower?


Hong "thank the heavens for metric" Ooi

 

[shadow]

I definately see a detailed pantheon adding flavor to a game. I guess that to some to extent, my main problem is that 3e almost forces polytheism. Of course, polytheism has been in the D&D game from the earliest days. However, 3e really makes it seem inextricably linked to the game. The domain spells are designed around the idea of different domains for different gods (not to mention the inclusion of the Greyhawk deities in the PHB) The DMG even states that polytheism is the default assumption for D&D.

Of course, it's possible to design alternative religious systems for D&D. My current campaign features a vague quasi-Catholic monotheistic church. I've toyed with the idea of designing a campaign based on pantheism (eg-everything is part of God). However, the core rules seem very biased toward the default polytheistic assumption, so it requires a little tinkering to integrate alternative religious systems.

Of course, ultimately, one of the main problems with religion is that it is a very controversial issue. Luckily, most gamers don't have a problem with the fantasy religions in games. (Although, I did play with a conservative Christian for a while who was reluctant to play a cleric.) However, some people in the general public don't seem to understand. I have heard of the 2e Forgotten Realms Faiths and Avatars being denounced for promoting the "worship" of pagan gods. (Afterall, if it's just a game manual, why does it include information on holy days, rituals, and priestly vestments?) And then there is always the creepy player who gets a little to into their cleric character. I happened to know one person in high school who always wanted to know the most minute detail about her character's patron deity. When she started wanting to actually act out rituals, and expressing desire to really worship certain Forgotten Realms deities, we decided she probably was getting a little too into the game. Needless to say, we don't game with her anymore.

I guess it ultimately depends on the campaign, and who you're playing with. For me, I'm going to continue to try to get away from the stale, cliched polytheistic pantheons.

 

[Particle_Man]

I've played in detailed gods and generic gods campaigns and both work fine. Basically, if the gods are generic, the dm and players just focus attention elsewhere.

How to jury rig 3e for that is easy. Take Pelor and Nerull as the only two gods. Give them titles instead of names: "The Creator" and "The Shadow" work nicely. Now you effectively have good-guy and bad-guy clerics, with no middle-ground, since the alignment restrictions force the clerics to either be good or evil if the only two gods are NG and NE.

This could also be more detailed, since even if you have only two gods, you could still have a multitude of religions, each of which gives the gods different names and has a different way of worshipping said gods.

Heck, you don't even need gods. The 3e rules allow for godless clerics, so clerics can just worship "the force" and "the dark side of the force".

 

[Henry]

I don't miss the AD&D "Generic" Cleric, because he's still sitting right there, underneath the veneer of Domains, smiling at me and waving.

I submit that if you wanted a more generic cleric, a la 1E, just remove the domains, and you wouldn't notice the loss in power one bit. They alrady have such a sizeable list of powerful spells, combined with bonus spells from high wisdom, that they would still shine quite respectably.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

I've played in detailed gods and generic gods campaigns and both work fine. Basically, if the gods are generic, the dm and players just focus attention elsewhere.

How to jury rig 3e for that is easy. Take Pelor and Nerull as the only two gods. Give them titles instead of names: "The Creator" and "The Shadow" work nicely. Now you effectively have good-guy and bad-guy clerics, with no middle-ground, since the alignment restrictions force the clerics to either be good or evil if the only two gods are NG and NE.

This could also be more detailed, since even if you have only two gods, you could still have a multitude of religions, each of which gives the gods different names and has a different way of worshipping said gods.

Heck, you don't even need gods. The 3e rules allow for godless clerics, so clerics can just worship "the force" and "the dark side of the force".

My campaign only has two gods, one good and one evil; clerics get many domains to choose from but that's not a problem with me.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

My homebrew has a whole passle of monotheistic religions (# main ones, with each having splinter sects.), some pantheistic holdovers, and godless, soulless elves. And a religious war in one of the three major religions that is going to last a bit under a century... Fanaticism is easy when the gods really do answer your requests in an obvious manner... Even when the other guy can do the same thing.

I have no desire to go back to generic clerics, my clerics had gods in 1976, and see no reason to stop now.

The Auld Grump