Does being pinned give you the -5 Dex score?

[Infiniti2000]

The reason you gave for not thinking that way is because it is a note on the AC Modifiers Table. Another DM might not think treating a Dex as 0 is limited to that.

I can't help what other people think. However, how would they reasonably get to that conclusion without totally ignoring where they read the footnote? It's simply not possible.

That's why it is implicit. Whether your "Dex of zero" is only for AC is not explicitly called out in a rule (i.e. within the text of Pinned for example). You interpret your way. Another DM interprets his way. That's implicit, not explicit. You are basing your interpretation solely on where you find the rule.

Where you find the rule is a significant point. By ignoring it, you take the rule totally out of context. It'd be like applying the spell description of fireball for the cone of cold spell. After all, you're only changing "where you find the rule." If you can do it for the AC Modifiers, why not for anything else?

PS I'm guessing your examples are rhetorical, but if you really want responses on them, let us know.

Note: You stated that your reason is explicit. Hyp stated that the exact same reason was implicit. The rules here are so vague that people cannot even agree if a given rule is explicit or implicit.

Hyp's just wrong. Maybe he'll reconsider after reading the responses.

 

[KarinsDad]

I
PS I'm guessing your examples are rhetorical, but if you really want responses on them, let us know.

Sure. Respond away.

 

[Infiniti2000]

If someone is pinned, how exactly do they get their Dex for Reflex saves? How do they avoid anything if they cannot move?

This actually is a debatable scenario (and thus a good point) due to the lack of rules on "immobile." Some people say, with conviction, that a character who is immobile doesn't even get a reflex save. On the other hand, how can you be immobile and in two separate situations be helpless or not helpless? There are clearly conflicts, and no easy answer per the rules.

Another example: If you are pinned and immobile, what is your Speed? Is it zero? Or is it merely "treated as" zero? Are you prevented from taking a 5 foot step, even though you are pinned?

First of all, I don't think your Speed ever really changes. You can move at half speed or not at all, but your Speed number doesn't change. Additionally, one reason you can't move while pinned is because you're grappling. You need to pin your opponent to move the grapple. Now, if you'r just "immobile" it's harder to answer because it depends on the condition that caused you to be immobile. If the condition is not explicit, I'd say it's still you can't move (e.g. Speed a '0') based on the definition of immobile (not a rules definition). I still say that's explicit.

Another example: If you are pinned, what are you pinned against? A wall? The floor? Nothing? Are you held motionless in midair?

The answer is entirely flavor.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where you find the rule is a significant point. By ignoring it, you take the rule totally out of context. It'd be like applying the spell description of fireball for the cone of cold spell. After all, you're only changing "where you find the rule." If you can do it for the AC Modifiers, why not for anything else?

See Crossbow, Heavy, 3E PHB p100.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

See Crossbow, Heavy, 3E PHB p100.

Sorry, I gave that book away.

 

[Cabral]

Please pardon me replying to a side note in this thread, but I feel I have to comment. Steve Irwin (croc hunter) or any croc handler is able to hold a crocs mouth closed because the muscles that open those long jaws are much, much weaker than the muscles that close those jaws with crushing force. Also, the length of the jaw itself gives leverage to the individual attempting to hold those jaws closed. Try opening salad tongs when someone is holding the far end closed and you'll get a clear picture.

anywho.... carry on

I think it's true for most creatures that their opening muscles are much weaker than their closing muscles. In addition, while a dragon's snout is not so long (relatively) as a croc's, it's similar. I'd keep this in mind for next time I faced a dragon ... if I didn't play a halfling.

 

[Feldspar]

Please pardon me replying to a side note in this thread, but I feel I have to comment. Steve Irwin (croc hunter) or any croc handler is able to hold a crocs mouth closed because the muscles that open those long jaws are much, much weaker than the muscles that close those jaws with crushing force. Also, the length of the jaw itself gives leverage to the individual attempting to hold those jaws closed. Try opening salad tongs when someone is holding the far end closed and you'll get a clear picture.

anywho.... carry on

The fact that it doesn't take much muscle power to hold a croc's jaws shut does nothing to change the fact that it probably takes some training/technique/experience (not to mention brass ones) to be able to approach a croc, grap that mouth and counter anything the croc does to get free (besides trying to open its jaws).

Now imagine trying to pull that on a dragon. Do adventurers refer to other adventurers as having "adamantine ones" to try a stunt like that?

 

[clark411]

Now imagine trying to pull that on a dragon. Do adventurers refer to other adventurers as having "adamantine ones" to try a stunt like that?

Sometimes... they don't even need adamantine ones if they have that feat what eliminates the attack of opportunity. That's basically what all this talk of "avoiding getting bitten" is reduced down to.