Does brutal affect magic weapon d6s on a crit?

[blargney the second]

My maul fighter just upgraded to being a mordenkrad fighter. When he scores a crit with his +2 weapon, does he reroll 1s on the extra 2d6 from the +2 enhancement? We couldn't quite tell in our game tonight, and could see it going either way.
-blarg

 

[inati]

Rule regarding Brutal property is as follows:

WEAPONS Brutal: A brutal weapon’s minimum damage is higher than that of a normal weapon. When rolling the weapon’s damage, reroll any die that displays a value equal to or lower than the brutal value given for the weapon. Reroll the die until the value shown exceeds the weapon’s brutal value, and then use the new value. AV pg8

Good question... I would rule that since the extra damage is a function of the weapon itself, it is part of "the weapon's damage" and thus you would "reroll any die" as the rules state.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'd rule "no." Extra crit damage is a function of the weapon's magic. It's not a weapon damage die per se.

 

[Baumi]

I'm pretty sure that it is only meant for the Weapon-Die since the power of brutal weapons seems balanced to similar non-brutal weapons, but if it would suddenly also work for critical hits, sneak attacks, etc. than brutal weapons have would become much better than others.

For Example take the Craghammer (d10, brutal 2) and the Waraxe (d12) both are superior one-handed weapons and nicely balanced to each other with one a higher low-damage and the other a higher max-damage but approximately the same average damage. If the crits and sneak dices would also reroll on the Craghammer than it would gain a massive (brutal2 on a d6!) advantage to the waraxe.

 

[Stalker0]

Weapon Damage is actually pretty explicit in 4e.

Its what you roll with your W. A 7[w] power doesn't automatically do 7d6 extra because of a crit for example.

So the brutal property doesn't apply to crit bonuses or any other bonus die that is added to the weapon, like from a flaming weapon for example.

 

[blargney the second]

Here's the text from the PHB regarding extra damage on critical hits:

Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum damage; you add the result of the roll.

-blarg

 

[Kordeth]

Here's the text from the PHB regarding extra damage on critical hits:

-blarg

Inanti has already posted the definition of "brutal" from AV, and it specifically says "weapon's damage." Weapon's damage is explicitly defined on p. 219 as the die value in the weapon chart, and nothing else. Extra damage from crits, sneak attack, curse, quarry, etc. are not part of the "weapon's damage." PHB p. 276 spells this out again. Weapon damage is the damage shown on the weapon chart, period.

 

[blargney the second]

Wow, Kordeth, that's very emphatic. Unfortunately, I don't think you're entirely right.

High Crit: A high crit weapon deals more damage when you score a critical hit with it. A critical hit deals maximum weapon damage and an extra 1[W] at 1st–10th levels, an extra 2[W] at 11th–20th levels, and an extra 3[W] at 21st–30th levels. This extra damage is in addition to any critical damage the weapon supplies if it is a magic weapon.

That sure looks like weapon damage to me, and it's linked to magic weapon bonus crit damage.
-blarg

 

[Kordeth]

Wow, Kordeth, that's very emphatic. Unfortunately, I don't think you're entirely right.

That sure looks like weapon damage to me, and it's linked to magic weapon bonus crit damage.
-blarg

It's not weapon damage, it's extra damage that's equal to the weapon damage die size.

 

[Stogoe]

I would let the extra [W] from the High Crit property get Brutal. But not magic-crit dice or striker dice.