D&D 5E does it seem lke tcoe Order of scribes wizard is largely solutions in search of a problem dressed up as an archetype?

[Paul Farquhar]

Why does it matter what's in the hardcovers so much?

Ok. It seems like probably the majority of groups are using them

The majority of the time? That seems very unlikely to me. I would estimate that I use published adventures (not just WotC) about 25% of the time. The remaining 75% I write myself. And any of the published stuff I use is adapted to suit.

I just can't get where the OP gets so much bile towards this subclass from. I can get that they may have had a bad experience playing a wizard, but surely they cannot believe that everyone has the same bad experience?! And I can't get why they are singling out this subclass when so many of the PHB wizard subclasses are little more than base class + ribbon.

 

[Ancalagon]

People have been clamoring for a "generalist" wizard since 5E's release 6 years ago (because apparently "generalist" wizards are unable to avoid hitting their party members in combat, which is why the Evocation school wasn't "generalist" enough for them.)

So now we have the Order of Scribes to fill the "generalist" wizard motif. It only took 6 years, but hopefully those that wanted it got what they were hoping for.

I always saw the abjurer as the generalist. After all, to most people goal #1 is survival. It takes someone a bit... off... to give up the defensive bonuses of the abjurer...

 

[Ancalagon]

It is high on my list of characters to play, once I get to, you know... play and not DM.

I know your pain...

 

[BacchusNL]

I always saw the abjurer as the generalist. After all, to most people goal #1 is survival. It takes someone a bit... off... to give up the defensive bonuses of the abjurer...

ArtiChron says hi

On the topic of spellbook-availability; I don't agree at all that they are spread to thin in official adventures to make Scribe Wizard bad. If the argument is that there are WAY more magic items over-all that benefit a non-caster; sure. That's pretty much what Tasha's tried to fix.

 

[TheSword]

This also completely ignores the ability to trade spells with pretty much any wizard you meet.

PC: “Excuse me Heironomous, we brought you back that scepter you asked for. I wondered would you be willing to trade a few spells as a professional courtesy...”

H: “Sorry my young fellow, I don’t have all day to wait while you copy spells.”

PC: “Don’t worry sir, I’m pretty quick. Will just take a few minutes of your time. Here’s a bottle of fine wine I seem to have lying around if you want to put your feet up.”

Most wizards spellbooks probably wouldn’t even be listed in the book as treasure if there’s no reason to kill them.

 

[TheSword]

Incidentally I’m about a third of the way through checking Rime and I’ve found 3 spell books. One including spells up to level 5.

I think we can put this spell book availability issue to bed now.

 

[tetrasodium]

Why does it matter what's in the hardcovers so much?

Ok. It seems like probably the majority of groups are using them - but are we assuming they're also doing nothing to tailor the events in the adventure to their particular PC group?

That's a truly depressing thought.

For a significant percentage of groups, the HD adventures will be a huge crutch if not near instruction manual on how to run a campaign when they are starting. That is not a controversial statement and in the absence of things like the old wealth by level charts its tue only real yardstick to compare against for deciding how they should award things so scrolls get underutilized and spell books are treated like the days of 1st&2nd edition where magic was really rare because it was generally so powerful. Add in the general lack of caster focused gear that @BacchusNL mentioned and that influence gets worse as it's stacked against a desire to give cool stuff to the non caster classes piles treasure high on them.
@baccusnl yes tasha's tries to address that generally completely ignored hole in magic items& feats five years and many sourcebook/he adventures in. The fact that it took them so long to even recognize the need coupled with the extreme hostility of the fairly recent dia makes it reasonable to wonder if wotc did that because they realize they made mistakes and need to do better in future HC releases or were just filling space.

@Paul Farquhar yes I too see wizard players constantly asking those sort of questions in groups, but it shouldn't be ignored how that stacks up against practically every single library & bookshelf they encounter in their early HC experiences being a dud affects things.in past editions a group would tear apart any library/study/bookshelf looking for the spellbook & spell scrolls they logically expect to have a likely change of finding if they are going to find anything but in 5e the HC adventures teach them of how badly mistaken that assumption is. One example of a houseowned by a wizard(sorcerer?) with a library in it that both contain no scrolls and no spell books in cos where the owner is described as having been learning magic comes to mind where the owner also has neither and is really only a noteworthy example because it ties so many duds together in one place at the same time. We won't know how serious they are about the kind or stuff we saw in tasha's until the next HC comes out.

Spoiler: don't take my word on that cos thing though

awesome
N3m... a locked closet! t must be hidden there to keep it safe!

N3t victor's workroom! maybe there?!

Spoiler: nope

N4P library! score right?!

Spoiler: nope

Well... hell what about one of the baddies or Victor?!...

Spoiler: it might as well literally say screw you on the first page

It doesn't include the teleport spell the adventure has been talking about, the glyph of warding he's been using, have a single complete spell

[/spoiler]
That kinda stuff like LMOP's spellbook quest, all of DiA ,& that CoS middle finger doesn't happen by mistake. It happens when it's not even a consideration. & no happy accident of chance handling it elsewhere..

 

[Shadowedeyes]

The whole point is that he did not have a complete version of Teleportation Circle though, so I'm not sure why it would be in there? The spellbook at the very least would have the standard mage npc spells, and probably should have glyph of warding since the book says he has casted it.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

@Paul Farquhar yes I too see wizard players constantly asking those sort of questions in groups, but it shouldn't be ignored how that stacks up against practically every single library & bookshelf they encounter in their early HC experiences being a dud affects things.

The point is, those things are not there unless the wizard actually looks for them. You would not expect every last second hand bookstore to be even mentioned in a town directory, never mind a full inventory of their stock.

The DM is expected to create these things, just as they are expected to create a florist or a brothel, if the players ask about them.

The same goes for wizards they defeat in combat. If they are a wizard, then they must have a spellbook, and it must contain the spells they know. It is not necessary to list it in their description, just as it in not necessary to list their boots and pointy hat.

in past editions

Past additions where no different. The DM was expected to use their common sense when the players ask about anything not mentioned in the text.

So, there is nothing wrong with this wizard subclass. Somehow you have become convinced the WotC published adventures do not have spellbooks and scrolls. This is, frankly, bollocks, but you have clearly decided to believe what you want, and you are not going to let inconvenient facts get in the way. Good night.

 

[Guest User]

Yes occasionally you will come up against dispel magic if the DM changes stat blocks as one would expect them to.

Beholders, babau demons, (a CR 4 demon that can be summoned by Greater Summon Demon), both cast Dispel Magic at will. That is just the 1st two monsters under the letter "B" that pop to mind.

WHY would you be out of low level spell slots? What adventure are you on where that is happening?

Any number of adventures can drain one dry. Gith raiding parties trying to recover the Silver Sword your party had in it's possession before, a lich that really wants revenge, etc, etc.

The Terminator, Aliens, (the James Cameron films in general), routinely are premised that the villain of the piece requires everything the protagonist has and more to defeat.
Some DMs, script adventures with the same assumption.

You are also overlooking Chapter 9 of the DMG, the DMG Workshop.
The Gritty Realism rest variant rules are on page 267. When a Short Rest takes 8 hours to be completed, and a Long Rest requires 7 full days to be completed, even Arcane Recovery resources can be stretched thin, if you have to routinely re-manifest Manifest Mind.

Not all games run off the same assumptions....I thought that was the established position of ENworld for matters under discussion.

Order of Scribes would be fine, for a low pressure, low Tier game.
A game that assumes that resources will always be strained, might not be the best
fit for OoS.