OSR Does "Old School" in OSR only apply to D&D?

So if you play a completely different system (1990s Deadlands, so, just to pick something at random) in an OSR way, are you playing an OSR game?
I mean, I think if your motivation to play is based on following OSR principles, then a larger number of systems would be considered, for that campaign, to be OSR.

Basically, OSR as a playstyle, not as a particular collection of systems. If you use 1e to replay (rewatch?) the Dragonlance modules, for example, that's "Old School", but not OSR.
 

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On the one hand, I guess confining OSR to D&D and its close relatives allows the term to maintain some distinct meaning when discussing types of games.

On the other hand, using OSR as a playstyle description, it does not make any sense to confine it to games that are within X distance of D&D, system wise.

What if we had a different term for the playstyle itself. What could we call following the tenets of the Old School Primer regardless of game system, new or old?
I'll be honest I think there is some cultural aspects drawing lines in the sand here. For some, OSR was not going forward in D&D becasue its gone exactly as far as it needs to go. A bit of the birth of OSR is in the backlash. For folks that will die on that hill, OSR is strict old school D&D adherence. Its more like old school resistance to them. There is an identity tied up there. For many others, that point of contention doesn't matter. They simply like the playstyle and design philosophies that facilitate it.

I tend to use descriptions like dungeon crawl, survival sim, skill play, to outline some of the playstyle goals if I need to be specific. I do think there is enough nuance in the idea of OSR that works, at least for me. I dont think there is a good alternative to capture all of the play style better than OSR as general term.
 

I do believe that the OSR scene historically began with D&D, over a roughly 6-7 year period starting with WotC relaxing/rescinding TSR's extremely fan-hostile internet policies around 1997, which allowed for sites like Dragonsfoot to spring up. Dragonsfoot was and remains a huge haven for 1E AD&D enthusiasts, though it supports discussion of other non-WotC games and editions.
You are right to note this - I often forget to credit the forum scene, as I was much more involved in the G+ and blog scene. It is of course where the term OSR first appeared, but I also don't really think it's where the OSR expanded and grew as much? My own biases perhaps. I am curious though how: A) intentional the forum OSR was - as in how intentional about forming a set of values or a play style, B) how much it actually focused on D&D and D&D alone, C) how much of it's focus was on what we would now consider old D&D - that is pre-1980 or so. I don't have answers, but my impression from reading back is that a lot of the earliest forum OSR was very happy with the sort of Trad style of TSR/WotC pre-3.5E. It was the 90's push towards even more highly restrictive design, illusionism and most importantly the shift to D&D as a tactical combat focused game that created the split?

Other games like Traveller or Call of Cthulhu are 100% Old School, but whether they are part of the renaissance or revival is a bit ambiguous and depends on what you mean by that, as many of them never went out of print and remained in continual support from their publishers.

That being said, folks who play or played games from the 70s or 80s and continued gaming into the new millenium are/were (IME) rarely exclusive to D&D. Most of us played lots of other games as well, so (for example) places like Dragonsfoot have sub-forums for non-D&D games, and those have always been welcome topics of discussion, even when WotC editions have been verboten.
This here is true and I think it's one of the place where the the conception of the OSR as purely older D&D based breaks down. Even if one is working on a retro-clone, when one's play experience includes a number of other RPGs it pretty quickly starts to influence the retroclone, and discussion around it. I remember people in 2012 or whenever talking about Traveller style lifepath generators for their retroclones (or at least tables). Of course, yes the focus of most OSR spaces has been on B/X but I think that's partially a product of it's familiarity and ease of modification?
 

I think it's also worth noting that there are old school systems that were not D&D that were often discussed in the same spaces, by the same people, with the same desire to reexamine and remix the past today, most notably FASERIP, the system that powered TSR's Marvel Super Heroes Roleplaying Game. The enthusiasm around FASERIP has cooled down in recent years, but I'd say any 21st century game using it or a variant is definitely attempting the same sort of conversation with the past that D&D-derived OSR games are.
 

I think it's also worth noting that there are old school systems that were not D&D that were often discussed in the same spaces, by the same people, with the same desire to reexamine and remix the past today, most notably FASERIP, the system that powered TSR's Marvel Super Heroes Roleplaying Game. The enthusiasm around FASERIP has cooled down in recent years, but I'd say any 21st century game using it or a variant is definitely attempting the same sort of conversation with the past that D&D-derived OSR games are.
I never played MSH back in the day (I was a DC kid, and therefore a DC Heroes gamer, at least until I discovered Champions) but I feel like I should check FASERIP out. I am looking for a clean, simple but not necessarily narrative supers game on which to build.

ETA: Oh, and look, it's free. I did not know that.
 

I never played MSH back in the day (I was a DC kid, and therefore a DC Heroes gamer, at least until I discovered Champions) but I feel like I should check FASERIP out. I am looking for a clean, simple but not necessarily narrative supers game on which to build.

ETA: Oh, and look, it's free. I did not know that.
I played it a bit back in the day, but we were Villains & Vigilantes players (fun, but no great shakes mechanically, to put it mildly).

What I remember most was that it A) actually had some apparent thought put into the mechanical engine, rather than just grabbing Holmes D&D and saying "good enough" and B) it did a better job of letting players put wildly different power scale heroes in the same adventure than Villains & Vigilantes did -- which is to say, it made an attempt to address the issue, whereas V&V just sort of shrugged at the problem.
 

On the one hand, I guess confining OSR to D&D and its close relatives allows the term to maintain some distinct meaning when discussing types of games.

On the other hand, using OSR as a playstyle description, it does not make any sense to confine it to games that are within X distance of D&D, system wise.

What if we had a different term for the playstyle itself. What could we call following the tenets of the Old School Primer regardless of game system, new or old?

I mean, I think if your motivation to play is based on following OSR principles, then a larger number of systems would be considered, for that campaign, to be OSR.

Basically, OSR as a playstyle, not as a particular collection of systems. If you use 1e to replay (rewatch?) the Dragonlance modules, for example, that's "Old School", but not OSR.
Tricky, as I kind of think that "What is the OSR play style" is potentially an unanswerable question. There have been several attempts to define the play style, dating back to Matt Finch's Quick Primer, but they're all somewhat subjective.

Principia Apocrypha (Ben Milton, Steven Lumpkin, David Perry)
Skerples' intro to OSR for new players
Google+ Discussion started by Scrap Princess, contributed to by lots of others- I like Patrick Stuart's list of 10 short principles at the end

You are right to note this - I often forget to credit the forum scene, as I was much more involved in the G+ and blog scene. It is of course where the term OSR first appeared, but I also don't really think it's where the OSR expanded and grew as much? My own biases perhaps. I am curious though how: A) intentional the forum OSR was - as in how intentional about forming a set of values or a play style, B) how much it actually focused on D&D and D&D alone, C) how much of it's focus was on what we would now consider old D&D - that is pre-1980 or so. I don't have answers, but my impression from reading back is that a lot of the earliest forum OSR was very happy with the sort of Trad style of TSR/WotC pre-3.5E. It was the 90's push towards even more highly restrictive design, illusionism and most importantly the shift to D&D as a tactical combat focused game that created the split?
Well, I think it's important to note that it started on the forums, because it was thing before retroclones came to be, and I've seen some folks treat OSR and retroclones as synonymous, which I think is definitely wrong. Despite its evolution or degeneration to being a marketing/publishing category, IMO that's just a sub-section that takes up a lot of space and attention and airtime nowadays.

I agree that the OSR movement really took off on the blogs, with tons of people exchanging ideas and expounding on their own, and explaining how they were putting them into practice. And offering lots of sweet gameable content for free! Some people really made a moral point about that (I seem to recall Kellri being vociferous about it, for example).

And from there Google+ became a haven for folks sharing even more, and enthusiasts in the scene playing in each other's games remotely. So there was kind of a hyper-acceleration of theory and practice within that community, but only for folks who were on G+. (I barely dipped my toes in it, mostly sticking to the forums and blogs).

Re: your A, B, and C, I don't think you're far off. I do think that there was a fair amount of variety in the game styles of the Old Schoolers. Lots of Trad, but also a fair amount of Gygaxian Classic. And once folks were on the forums swapping ideas, I think there was a tendency to start talking theory and comparing notes. Remember that AD&D mostly ruled the roost at first, with OD&D having a minority of partisans, and B/X gaining its huge mindshare later. Philotomy's Musings was Jason Cone writing at length about how he used and thought about OD&D, both to new players and to AD&D fans who never got into OD&D or who had moved on from it long ago.

This here is true and I think it's one of the place where the the conception of the OSR as purely older D&D based breaks down. Even if one is working on a retro-clone, when one's play experience includes a number of other RPGs it pretty quickly starts to influence the retroclone, and discussion around it. I remember people in 2012 or whenever talking about Traveller style lifepath generators for their retroclones (or at least tables). Of course, yes the focus of most OSR spaces has been on B/X but I think that's partially a product of it's familiarity and ease of modification?
Sure, I think that B/X took over from AD&D and OD&D in OSR spaces because of its relative simplicity and clarity.

Most of us (at least in the US and UK) who started after '79 started with a Basic set of one iteration or another, but swiftly moved to AD&D because it was the "REAL" game. For grownups. With more complex and powerful options.

But because AD&D 1E's rules were so opaque and complex, basically everyone houseruled them and nearly everyone simplified them. A lot of folks coming back to D&D in the 2000s after 3E looked at AD&D and then looked again at B/X or BECMI and were like "Hey, turns out we just ignored the AD&D initiative system and used the Basic system the whole time". "I thought we were playing AD&D strictly but we actually ignored a lot of it. And B/X is less of a headache and looks like it suits my needs better."

OSRIC was the first retroclone because AD&D used to hold that OSR mindshare. But gradually, after it came out in 2005, B/X started taking over. And hence we see Labyrinth Lord and BFRPG in Jan and Feb of 2007 both implementing a simpler rule set more akin to B/X, but including popular concepts and options from AD&D.
 

Tricky, as I kind of think that "What is the OSR play style" is potentially an unanswerable question. There have been several attempts to define the play style, dating back to Matt Finch's Quick Primer, but they're all somewhat subjective.

Principia Apocrypha (Ben Milton, Steven Lumpkin, David Perry)
Skerples' intro to OSR for new players
Google+ Discussion started by Scrap Princess, contributed to by lots of others- I like Patrick Stuart's list of 10 short principles at the end
I would take the Primer as the base for most of the OSR development, and the Principia for anything NSR (which are more mechanically diverse but even more focused on principled play.)
 

In common usage, yes. Just like how RPG is effectively synonymous with D&D. It dominates all spaces. But no, the OSR doesn’t just cover D&D. There are plenty of retroclones and -like games out there for non-D&D RPGs.
 

Not necessarily?

OSR is inspired by O/AD&D, so over 90% of the time, OSR is going to be talking about D&D. D&D has by far the largest market share so that sounds obvious, but even if we lived in a world where it didn't, most OSR games would still be some variant of D&D. Yet, there are OSR games out there that aren't D&D or a hack thereof.

Just, if you're talking about an OSR game that isn't related to D&D, might want to point that out early to avoid confusion.
 

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