OSR Does "Old School" in OSR only apply to D&D?

[MNblockhead]

While I like all games I played in the '80s being considered "old school", in practice the term OSR loses all value for me outside of D&D. If someone advertises their game as OSR, I expect an OD&D retroclone like Swords & Wizardry or something like that. If someone says they are running an OSR Paranoia game, I've got a lot more questions. I mean the game experience of '80s paranoia and the new versions put out by Mongoose Publishing really don't feel all that much different to me.

OD&D does feel quite different to me than all the editions that came after. At Gamehole Con a few months ago, I played in a game where the characters went through multiple editions of D&D. I also played in a variety of sessions that used different editions of D&D. All are recognizable as D&D, but OD&D does stand out from later versions. The retroclones of OD&D that I've played generally capture the feel of OD&D but with a bit of cleaning up and modernizing some of the rules.

I'm writing this as someone who is outside of the OSR "movement". I don't have a lot of interest in reading all of the essays and blog posts diving into the OSR game-design philosophy. But from what exposure I do have, I generally have a good idea of knowing what I'm getting into with an OSR D&D-style game. I don't know what "OSR" means in terms of game style when it comes to non-D&D games from the same era--other than they are also old games.

 

[MNblockhead]

In common usage, yes. Just like how RPG is effectively synonymous with D&D. It dominates all spaces. But no, the OSR doesn’t just cover D&D. There are plenty of retroclones and -like games out there for non-D&D RPGs.

Is OSR just an adjective for "retroclone"? What little I've read about the OSR "movement" or philosophy of game design, it emphasizes rulings over rules, player skill over character skill, high lethality, exploration, resource management, randomness and emergent storytelling, and sandboxes/open-world (though I question this last one based on my experience).

Not all old games fit those criteria. I would think a lot of the newer indie games fit this more than even many OSR OD&D retroclones.

I find there is some dissonance caused by the advertising of OD&D retroclones and OSR game-design theory. For new or non-gamers it is probably meaningless. For long-time gamers who are not all that into game design philosophy it is shorthand for an OD&D-like game. I think only those really invested in game-theory discussions can appreciate the nuances.

 

[overgeeked]

Is OSR just an adjective for "retroclone"? What little I've read about the OSR "movement" or philosophy of game design, it emphasizes rulings over rules, player skill over character skill, high lethality, exploration, resource management, randomness and emergent storytelling, and sandboxes/open-world (though I question this last one based on my experience).

Not all old games fit those criteria. I would think a lot of the newer indie games fit this more than even many OSR OD&D retroclones.

I find there is some dissonance caused by the advertising of OD&D retroclones and OSR game-design theory. For new or non-gamers it is probably meaningless. For long-time gamers who are not all that into game design philosophy it is shorthand for an OD&D-like game. I think only those really invested in game-theory discussions can appreciate the nuances.

As I said, D&D dominates. Most of what you’ll find in all RPG spaces is D&D centered. The OSR does go beyond just D&D. Same as RPGs go beyond just D&D. You’re pointing to D&D-centered OSR stuff and wondering why it doesn’t apply to non-D&D games.

 

[Alerad]

For me OSR focuses on 1. Player agency, 2. Exploration, risk and reward, 3. Randomness thus 4. Emergent story-telling and play. They also tend to be rules-light systems so you can join a table, make a character in 10 mins and start playing. By this definition OSR could apply to systems beyond D&D. B/X or 1e compatible OSR should be d20 attack based system with 6 ability scores though.

 

[Jack Daniel]

▯

 

[howandwhy99]

When discussing the OSR movement, does it only apply to games that emulate early D&D? Or do other early games such as Traveller or Metamorphosis Alpha also qualify as "Old School" especially as it relates to talking about OSR games?

Basically, yes. D&D was 90-95% of the hobby for the first ten to fifteen years. Even if a group didn't play D&D it would define how they and their games were different.

Metamorphosis Alpha was a small run game and not terribly well finished. I like it a lot, but as a bait-and-switch non-D&D (not adventure) game. Based on survival and discovery, where the random inequality of powers made sense. Not the 90s 4th and later versions where it was almagamated in into D&D. It's still a GM sim game behind a screen though.

Traveller is confusing too, but it is more of a wargame with trade and exploration, which quickly moved to plotted storytelling. It has two interesting features, to me. It's character generation is a press-your-luck gambling game where pressing too long likely loses the character (aka death) and you have to start over. The interesting part is: all the abilities gained don't advance, so the real game is on another axis. Gain wealth, knowledge, power, reputation, all while trying not to die.

It has hidden design aspects too, but the second feature, the big design aspect, is all of the generative design systems. From building a star system to an alien species to tech to a starship. D&D used these to remove DM interference from the validity of scoring on the game. DM's had to roll rather than involve themselves. For Traveller it was always harder to see why they were there, but ostensibly it was for similar reasons. To keep the game fair.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Don't let other people define things. Play what you want.

It's all just words. And words don't mean anything other than what we agree on. And me? I'm disagreeable.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Don't let other people define things. Play what you want.

It's all just words. And words don't mean anything other than what we agree on. And me? I'm disagreeable.

I think there are only a handful of times this matters with the term OSR. For example while my books have some old school sensibilities, I wouldn't put OSR on them because 1) They don't use a system based on D&D and 2) They aren't thoroughly old school. If someone put out a book that was a retroclone of a non-D&D game, I think people might feel misled if there is OSR on the cover with no qualifier. Outside that, people hash out what they mean by OSR and it isn't as important

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I think there are only a handful of times this matters with the term OSR. For example while my books have some old school sensibilities, I wouldn't put OSR on them because 1) They don't use a system based on D&D and 2) They aren't thoroughly old school. If someone put out a book that was a retroclone of a non-D&D game, I think people might feel misled if there is OSR on the cover with no qualifier. Outside that, people hash out what they mean by OSR and it isn't as important

Personally, I don't believe something is old school unless it can quote Barney Miller.

 

[MNblockhead]

Personally, I don't believe something is old school unless it can quote Barney Miller.

Captain of the town watch: [while getting ready for a vigil] Fish, we shall needs draw arms of especial make.

Watchman Wojo: [Extremely excited about being allowed to go on his first time lying in wait] Ho there, let me take this task! I shall make haste to the armory. Now then, what be our needs? Blunderbusses, mayhap! Alchemists’ smoke vials! And masks to ward off foul vapors!

[He leaves the guardhouse to go draw the weapons]

Watchman Fish: [Observing Wojo's enthusiasm about the weapons] A fine lad.

Captain: It taketh but a trifle to bring him joy.


Okay, that was lazy, but I enjoyed it. And I got sucked into a nostalgia trip on You Tube and IMDB.