Does Orb of Force affect a golem?

[Diirk]

Note that there are a lot of situations where 1d6/level to lots of creatures is inferior to 1d6/level to 1 creature, simply because those extra creatures are your compatriots...

True, but you can minimize these situations with various abilities to sculpt spells, or spells with improved targetting (eg. flamebrand) etc. However if you're playing to the strengths of an arcane caster it seems to me the best way to go is area affecting damage spells vs lots of targets or save or die/be disabled/be horribly disadvantaged type spells for single targets. Or preferably the latter without save, but those aren't as common

With the exception of maybe disintegrate and meteor swarm, I find that arcane casters don't have as high a damage potential vs single targets as melee types do.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

I for one think the whole line of "but it's conjuration, so there's no save" is a load of horse doo.

As for conjuration having SR: No, I'm cool with that since SR has just gone insane. Golems in particular.

The problem with the Orb spells is that they make no sense as conjurations. From what I could see, Conjurations have a lesser effect than Evocations over a longer period of time. Acid Arrow, Acid Fog, Cloudkill, Glitterdust -- all multi-round spells.

Not to mention that a Conjuration (Creation) makes a physical object. So there's a little force orb rolling around on the ground after the spell is cast. Huh?

So a 4th-level, single-target, max 15d6 (elemental), short range, ranged touch, no SR spell -- balanced. 10d6, medium range, Force -- not bad, but pushing it.

Conjuration? Huh? That just doesn't make any sense.

Word! You're d'man! Anyone else want to get onto my Soapbox-of-Inconsistent-Spell-Design. You can gather some general design principles from the spells in the SRD. Every WotC product with spells in it since royally f***s with those principles.

Note that there are a lot of situations where 1d6/level to lots of creatures is inferior to 1d6/level to 1 creature, simply because those extra creatures are your compatriots...

Funny, proximity of my colleagues to the bad guys never stopped my wizard lobbing AoE spells. "Run the numbers, chief"

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Bront]

Note that there are a lot of situations where 1d6/level to lots of creatures is inferior to 1d6/level to 1 creature, simply because those extra creatures are your compatriots...

I thought that was the point? They have more HP and probably a better reflex save than you anyway, so you need to even it out somehow...

 

[moritheil]

Funny, proximity of my colleagues to the bad guys never stopped my wizard lobbing AoE spells. "Run the numbers, chief"

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

Your wizard needs to see this thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=127044

Aside from which, I agree that in 3.5, magic immunity is treated as "unbeatable spell resistance" and as such, spells that bypass SR affect them. A poor design choice, IMHO, but there you have it.

 

[Bad Paper]

balance

well, the Orb spells are "balanced" insofar as they are fair in relation to other fourth-level spells, and they don't really overshadow the evocations too much, but...

Spells? Against golems? Isn't the core of the whole golem mystique to scare the bejezus out of the mage? "...and YOU thought you didn't need that Golembane Scarab... mu hahaha"

I was DMing last night and the wizard tossed Orb of Force at Mr. Scary Boss Golem man and did like 30 points of damage right off. It really took the wind out of me. Later, the boy teleported away before I could make mincemeat out of him. My PCs are getting too strong, and clearly need a good beating. Next time.

Oh yeah, and conjuring an Orb of force, or sound, or whatever. yeah, OHHHH KAYYYY. sure. "Force," by definition, is an action, or vector, or energy, or whatever. It's not a thing. You conjure things; you evoke the other stuff. I'd be OK with the Orbs being evocations. Maybe.

 

[Thanee]

The only problem with those spells is, that they are generally better than compareable evocation spells, which simply shouldn't be.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Saeviomagy]

I fixed it for you.

DOH! I meant "it's conjuration, so there's no SR is a load of horse doo".

So thanks, in a way, but at the same time no thanks.

Everyone else who quoted me take note: I have no problems with exchanging a touch attack roll for a save, or revoking saves on certain spells, or the like. It's the idea that a conjured acid spray is somehow different to a beam of evoked cold in some way that makes the former less magicky that gets me.

 

[moritheil]

well, the Orb spells are "balanced" insofar as they are fair in relation to other fourth-level spells, and they don't really overshadow the evocations too much, but...

Spells? Against golems? Isn't the core of the whole golem mystique to scare the bejezus out of the mage? "...and YOU thought you didn't need that Golembane Scarab... mu hahaha"

I was DMing last night and the wizard tossed Orb of Force at Mr. Scary Boss Golem man and did like 30 points of damage right off. It really took the wind out of me. Later, the boy teleported away before I could make mincemeat out of him. My PCs are getting too strong, and clearly need a good beating. Next time.

Oh yeah, and conjuring an Orb of force, or sound, or whatever. yeah, OHHHH KAYYYY. sure. "Force," by definition, is an action, or vector, or energy, or whatever. It's not a thing. You conjure things; you evoke the other stuff. I'd be OK with the Orbs being evocations. Maybe.

Mr. Scary Boss Golem Man should have also had a reflective coating that acted as a Spell Turning effect. That way, the wizard only gets to contribute after the meleers knock it down below a certain amount of health. Everybody gets to take part in the fight, which means more fun for the team.

PS: If you think the orb of force is lame, how about the orb of lightning? It has nothing to hold it together, it's just an orb . . . of lightning.

 

[Testament]

Good to know that I'm not alone in my hatred of the Orbs being conjurations. I can stretch to see how you could conjure fire and cold (White Phosphorus, as with Incendiary Cloud and Liquid Nitrogen respectively), but force, lightning and sound?

 

[Thanee]

Yes, if I would read the spell description without school classification, I'd definitely think evocation not conjuration.

And really, evocation already is such a limited school, it really doesn't seem right to let other schools invade into their small share.

Bye
Thanee