Pathfinder 2E Does PF2E have tiers of play?

[Celtic-Knight]

Hey hey, does PF2E have tiers of play similar to how level 1-4 is Local Heroes in dnd 5e or could someone please give me an equivalent? Sorry if it is in the rulebook somewhere, but I'm curious to know as I'm planning a small sandbox game and would like their reputation to reflect their level of renown.

 

[payn]

Im really curious how a sandbox even works in PF2?

 

[Retreater]

I would suggest that maybe you look at the different proficiency tiers. Trained and expert can be any level, but master training happens at 7th+, legendary at 15th+.

 

[Celtic-Knight]

Im really curious how a sandbox even works in PF2?

Well I've set it in the Fable universe so the players have all of Albion to enjoy. I've set up the narrative that the players are young Heroes and every time they complete a quest they get one step closer to levelling up. No exp for killing enemies as I want to encourage diplomacy, exploration and caution. I'm basically copying Rime of The Frost Maidens structure with Reaver being the bbeg. (Cus he's an evil bastard who needs to die).

Structurally it looks like:
Main quest 1
Side
Side
Side - Level up
Lead from Main Quest 1 shows up for Main Quest 2 with agency or tempting rewards
Repeat steps until the game comes to a natural and satisfying conclusion and hope we don't fizzle out before then.

I would suggest that maybe you look at the different proficiency tiers. Trained and expert can be any level, but master training happens at 7th+, legendary at 15th+.

Thank you, I did do more searching online and this does seem to be the consensus.

 

[payn]

In relation to a sandbox I was thinking more about the +level design of PF2. Is the world just completely compartmentalized into zones. You stay in a zone that isnt suicide until its a cake walk? Im just not sure how a traditional sandbox works in a system like that.

 

[Celtic-Knight]

In relation to a sandbox I was thinking more about the +level design of PF2. Is the world just completely compartmentalized into zones. You stay in a zone that isnt suicide until its a cake walk? Im just not sure how a traditional sandbox works in a system like that

I see the world and encounters in a fluid state, the cities and the trade routes that connect them are "safe" for commoners and low-level PC's. The danger is when they leave the roads or head to more remote places, like there is no levelled zones as I scale the quests/rumours to their level but that doesn't mean werewolves and witches aren't running around either. Maybe I've chosen the wrong system for the game I want to run, but I've never ran a game with mmo-style zoning. I don't know how to explain I find the idea of zoning completely alien to me and ive every game I've ever ran or played portrayed much higher level enemies as threats to be spotted, avoided or tricked. I grew up with Pendragon D20 and we had all of Britain to roam, Scotland wasn't a different level zone from Wales because threat aren't separated by arbitrary borders they are around every corner, in every cave or every ruin and that's part of the exploration and exciting danger of accepting quests.

Basically I'm not going to throw unfair fights at the players and real threats will usually be foreshadowed or come with plenty of warning, because I want them to desire power so they can take on these threats and feel part of a living world. I don't know, I've never seen roleplaying through the lens of zoning and read +level as a tool of narrative escalation and system mastery.

 

[!DWolf]

There isn’t an official level = reputation system but there is a reputation system in the gamemaster guide that, while probably more detailed than what you are looking for, might be useful with some alterations: you could set it up for the entire sandbox and have each adventure/quest/task that they accomplished give them a number of reputation points for the area.

 

[!DWolf]

In relation to a sandbox I was thinking more about the +level design of PF2. Is the world just completely compartmentalized into zones. You stay in a zone that isnt suicide until its a cake walk? Im just not sure how a traditional sandbox works in a system like that.

I am running a successful pseudo-sandbox and I know @kenada is running an actual sandbox. Kenada uses the proficiency-without-level rules to flatten the math, while I use bell curve encounter distribution: most encounters will be calibrated to be moderate for level X but there will be harder and easier fights with the number of them growing less frequent the farther they get away from the median. As long as you give forewarning and have players who want to do things other than blindly rush in and fight every thing they encounter to the death, and you know how to correctly do random encounters (if you are using them), I have found pf2e works really well.

You might want to check out the exploration mode thread as well. Among other things: both kenada and I posted our exploration procedures and I posted a example of the PCs taking on a quadruple extreme encounter.

 

[Celtic-Knight]

There isn’t an official level = reputation system but there is a reputation system in the gamemaster guide that, while probably more detailed than what you are looking for, might be useful with some alterations: you could set it up for the entire sandbox and have each adventure/quest/task that they accomplished give them a number of reputation points for the area.

Very cool, I will check that out thank you.

 

[kenada]

In relation to a sandbox I was thinking more about the +level design of PF2. Is the world just completely compartmentalized into zones. You stay in a zone that isnt suicide until its a cake walk? Im just not sure how a traditional sandbox works in a system like that.

Like @!DWolf said, I’m running a sandbox *crawl in PF2. I don’t think sandbox necessarily implies a *crawl, but they are structures that commonly go together. Anyway, I do a couple of things to manage encounters.

For dungeon exploration, I follow the old-school style of floor = #HD. I wouldn’t call that zones, but I wouldn’t fault someone for seeing it that way. I pick a target level then tune the floor for that level. Proficiency Without Level helps by giving me a wider range of creatures to use, but I wouldn’t say it’s necessary in this approach.

For wilderness exploration, I just use whatever makes sense. My setting has a hard cap of 12th level, but I have some areas with 17th level creatures. They just make sense to be there, and the party will need to use its wits if it wants to make it out okay. Of course, since we aren’t assuming they are supposed to fight everything, they have a chance of escaping or parleying.

I think that last line is the assumption that makes things work. The party shouldn’t expect to fight and kill everything they meet. Exploration mode helps a lot to structure play so that they’re not just trudging from encounter to encounter, but it really comes down to communicating expectations. This is not a game where you should expect to fight everything and win.

However, a *crawl is just one type of sandbox. You don’t have to do that. You can give PCs a bunch of hooks and use node-based design to let them decide how they want to handle the situation. That’s usually how I handle short adventures: give the PCs a goal, and let them loose.