Does your campaign have magic shops?

[Faraer]

Making something for sale commodifies it. Shopping is not heroic. Purchase of magic items isn't part of any genre I want to emulate.

That's the dominant concern for me, and means I want nothing to do with magic shops. I can't speak for the new D&D rules, which make magic-item manufacture far too easy for my taste, but in the D&D milieux I'm concerned with -- the World of Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms, as conceived by their creators -- the magical economy has most certainly been thought through on the realist level and magic shops would not make sense.

These assertions that capitalist dogma should hold true in fantasy worlds are quite bizarre.

 

[Ibram]

My view of wizards is that, apart from being more intelligent and learned than the average person, they are pretty normal. Which is to say they tend not to be evil, nor insane and are much more likely than not to work within the rules of society. Thus they are much more likely to legally earn a living by casting spells for money than by illegally threatening to set people on fire.

thats a campaign flavor issue. My campaign draws rather heavily on Howard and Lovecraft, and as such the general view is that magic = bad. Now powerful and well traveled people (like an adventuring party) usualy learn that magic does not always = bad, but that it is always dangerous.

I should also point out that servants who work for you only through fear for their lives are not going to be the most loyal servants in the world. Indeed they're liable to kill you while you sleep.

To your average commoner a 7th level wizard has godlike powers which the commoner could never understand. this is often enough to keep most pesants in line. There is also the fact that most servants would never even see their master, they would just bring him food and the occasional strange component.
Of course any wizard who goes this route must be very careful, as there is always a line that once crossed brings the local villiagers to your tower with pitchforks and torches (or has some gold sliped to a traveling band of mercenaries).

even if sucessful powerful wizards can be very hard to kill, and rarely stay burried for long. So trying to get rid of your wizard master may only get you a knew lich master. or have your villiage devistated by a magical curse.

 

[Ibram]

You don't need gold to make magic items? Gee, isn't that the whole of the base cost? Materials to make the item from? Or to perform rituals on the item with, same difference? XP, yes, but you also need gold (money) to buy materials with--metal, cloth, etc.

If the wizard has a patron (like a duke or king) then he can just get these things in return for his regular services. If hes living alone in a tower several days from the nearest villiage then no amount of gold is going to get what you need.

Gee, must be some pretty stupid wizards who let just any power-hungry person become a wizard and give them all such bad names...

its not that "any power-hungry person" can become a wizard, its that the mindset needed to warp reality with your will tends to foster such an attitude.

Swamped by requests? Lots of money to be made, sitting at home, working in a relatively safe environment, as opposed to being in the weather and shot at while adventuring? Sounds great to me!

Sorcery is not for the faint of heart. to gain any sort of real power a magic user has to travel far and wide, seaking out ancient tombs and ancient daemons.

Robbers? "Not setting you on fire"--gee, wouldn't that deter robbers?

what works to keep know-nothing villiagers in line doesnt work on those who are more worldly. and the scarcity of magic items is usualy enough that when a large supply is located it gets a lot of attention.

 

[Rel]

My campaign draws rather heavily on Howard and Lovecraft, and as such the general view is that magic = bad.

Would you perhaps concede that this is not the norm?

 

[VirgilCaine]

If the wizard has a patron (like a duke or king) then he can just get these things in return for his regular services. If hes living alone in a tower several days from the nearest villiage then no amount of gold is going to get what you need.

Yes, it will. Wizard hires PCs to go and buy stuff for him.

Would you perhaps concede that this is not the norm?

Hopefully, he will concede that his campaign is a bit...different from most other peoples. The least he could have done is say that his campaign is very Lovecraftian/Conan-like in it's view of magic, which the default D&D campaign is not.

 

[Ibram]

Would you perhaps concede that this is not the norm?

I never claimed that my campaign was General Issue D&D, I was just stating the in game logic behind why magic items are so hard to come by.

 

[Ibram]

Yes, it will. Wizard hires PCs to go and buy stuff for him.

"Here mister stranger, take these 500gp and go to the the city to get me some andimantium ore."

What usualy happens is that the PCs need a weapon, say a +2 daemon bane longsword. After speaking with their contacts and conducting some research (and spending a bit of gold) they learn that there are rumors of a Macordian Wizard living along the edge of the Forest of Deep Shadows. They travel there and manage to track dowo the wizard in his tower. The wizard has no need of gold (when they show him a bag of gp he laughs and kicks open a large chest filled with enough gold and gems to by a large kingdom). Insted of gold he asks them to go to some ruins his research has located and recover a scroll he believes is hidden there. Once they return he makes the sword for them.

As a DM I do not care for the mindset that says "oh now that i have x gp I'm going to go down to the magic dealership, trade in my +1 and pick up a +2"

As a player I have a tendency to abuse a magic system that allows me to custom design my own weapons.

 

[Rel]

I never claimed that my campaign was General Issue D&D, I was just stating the in game logic behind why magic items are so hard to come by.

My apologies then. I was conflating your posts (which apparently only espouse the reasons why you don't have much if any "magic for cash" transactions in your unique campaign world) with those of DragonLancer (who apparently feels that there should be no "magic for cash" transactions in the default D&D world).

 

[DragonLancer]

My apologies then. I was conflating your posts (which apparently only espouse the reasons why you don't have much if any "magic for cash" transactions in your unique campaign world) with those of DragonLancer (who apparently feels that there should be no "magic for cash" transactions in the default D&D world).

I never said there should be no "magic for cash." I just think that the idea of magic shops selling more than potions and low-level scrolls, and that every caster is going to be making items for sale, is not a poor idea. Its taking the default setting of D&D to the extreme.

Just because the DMG gives costs and rules for making items, does not mean that it should be played that way. It seems that everyone is so intent on taking my words literally that they arn't reading the intent behind my words.

 

[Rel]

I never said there should be no "magic for cash." I just think that the idea of magic shops selling more than potions and low-level scrolls, and that every caster is going to be making items for sale, is not a poor idea. Its taking the default setting of D&D to the extreme.

Just because the DMG gives costs and rules for making items, does not mean that it should be played that way. It seems that everyone is so intent on taking my words literally that they arn't reading the intent behind my words.

Among my favorite quotes from all gamerdom is by Robin Laws who said, "There is only one correct way to play roleplaying games: The way that best suits you and your group of players."

I think that what might be rubbin' some people the wrong way is that they are perceiving you as saying, "If you have Magic Item stores in your campaign then you're doing it wrong." I think they are understanding you to say, "Magic items should be special and mystical and not generally for sale and portraying them as mere comodities is bad gaming."

And if that is indeed what you are saying, then it is you who are wrong. Because they are not "doing it wrong" and it is not "bad gaming" if it is what works best for them and their players. Different people and different groups find different aspects of the game to be the ones where they most like to focus.

If what you are instead saying is that you prefer that magic items not be for sale on the market in your games for all the reasons that you've stated then that's fine and I don't really see anybody trying to refute that. I think that what folks are dumbfounded by is how difficult it can be to reconcile the rules as written, including the considerable number of spellcasters generated using the guidelines in the DMG, and the availability of Item Creation Feats at relatively low levels, with the idea that some items would not wind up for sale in some format in some locations.

Your answer to this dilemma seems to fall along the lines of "well, it just shouldn't be that way". Hence the conflict.

I'll also mention that, this being a message board, we are communicating only by the written word. That makes it tremendously difficult for many of us to guess things like "the intent behind your words". As such we are largely left to try our best to understand the litteral meaning of the words you have written. Hence the conflict stretches to Page 7.