Does your campaign have magic shops?

[DragonLancer]

There are thus some 6000 spellcasters in the world capable of crating permanent magical items. Assuming one-in-four have relevant item creation feats, and half are actively adventuring etc., we have 750 "creation-active" casters, and if we are to assume that they craft permanent magical item every six months (very conservative, especially given the nature of the items crafted) we can assume an entry into the market of 1500 permanent magical items per year. Since permanent magical items do not rust or fall apart, we will assume a very low depreciation ratio, and hence assume that half of all magical items *ever* created have been destroyed, and half are languishing in private collections and dungeons. Given a civilisation lifespan of 200 years, there are thus 75,000 permanent magical items in circulation.

I think that that qualifies as a market. I think that there would be magic shops. Sure, they are luxury items, much akin to expensive art galleries today. But to simply flatly say "no magic shops" seems to repudiate basic analysis.

Nicely worked out, but a campaign setting worked out like that has removed the awe and wonder of magic (and magical items) and turned them into everyday items. Theres no wonder anymore.

There are aspects of the game that don't need to follow real world models. Yes, casters can make items (though I have issues with PC's making permanent items), but how many NPC casters are going to waste that XP making magical items? Not that many IMO.

 

[Storm Raven]

Magic item shopes do not exist IMC. They are a silly idea IMO.

And many people would find silly the idea that no market exists for such obviously valuable items.

You might be able to trade some to local temples or mages in return for scrolls or potions, but magic items should be as close to priceless items as you get in D&D.

They are expensive, but so are cars, yachts, and private jets. Yet people still buy those. Titles of nobility, armies, and estates in land were immensely valuable in the midaevil world, and yet people still bought those.

 

[Storm Raven]

Have you come up with a reasonable explanation for why they do? Is there really a market that justifies opening up a shop, for instance? Even big city (by D&D standards) only has a coupla dozen folks tops that would be in the customer base.

People run car dealerships that only sell Bentleys or Lambourghinis. There are people whose entire business is to sell Lear Jets to private individuals. There are people who sell yachts. How big is their customer base?

 

[GMSkarka]

Titles of nobility, armies, and estates in land were immensely valuable in the midaevil world, and yet people still bought those.

Yes, but you didn't see "Ye Olde Noble Title, Army and Estate Shoppe" on any random city street.

 

[Non-human Resources]

Logically, if someone can afford to make it, then someone else can afford to buy it. If you have enough buyers then you have basis for a business.

Part of the problem is that the D&D magic item economy is completely seperate from all other economies in the game.

Consider this: An NPC has enough ranks/feats/stats to justify a profession score of +20. His average d20 roll will be 10.5 plus his +20 for a total profession roll of 30.5. This represents one week of work in gold pieces.

That's right, this guy (who is probably at least 10th level) is making 30 gp each week on average.

A mage, on the other hand, can make a +1 sword in only two days and sell it for a profit of 1000 gp. And he is only 5th level.

For a year:
professional (10th level) makes 1560 gp working every week.
mage (5th level) makes 1000 gp working only two days.

If the mage wants to make more money than the professional he has to find another buyer and has "only" 360 odd days to do it.

The only reason I can see for there to not be any magic shops/marketplaces is that there isn't enough people who can afford them. If that's true then it's unlikely that anyone can make them. There just isn't enough money in the economy.

If there are enough buyers then there will be shops because somebody will be attracted to that massive profit incentive and low work overhead.

 

[DragonLancer]

And many people would find silly the idea that no market exists for such obviously valuable items.

They are expensive, but so are cars, yachts, and private jets. Yet people still buy those. Titles of nobility, armies, and estates in land were immensely valuable in the midaevil world, and yet people still bought those.

But we're not talking about jets, cars or titles. We're talking about magical items, which are meant to be wonderous and rare, but they arn't because they are being sold dime a dozen in shops across your game world.

 

[Sejs]

Yes, but you didn't see "Ye Olde Noble Title, Army and Estate Shoppe" on any random city street.

Sure you did. It was called "Ingratiating yourself to your Lord". Become good buddies with the guy in charge and you could well find yourself with title, lands, and estate even though you didn't actually do anything and by the rules wern't entitled by right of birth.


So yeah, there were Ye Olde Title, Army, and Estate Shoppes.


They just didn't take straight gold as payment.

 

[The_Gneech]

But we're not talking about jets, cars or titles. We're talking about magical items, which are meant to be wonderous and rare, but they arn't because they are being sold dime a dozen in shops across your game world.

There's a wide, wide swath between "merchants occasionally have magic items" and "magic items are a dime a dozen." Just because something isn't white, doesn't mean that it must therefore be black.

-The Gneech

 

[GMSkarka]

Sure you did. It was called "Ingratiating yourself to your Lord". Become good buddies with the guy in charge and you could well find yourself with title, lands, and estate even though you didn't actually do anything and by the rules wern't entitled by right of birth.

Yes, it happened....which is why I said "Yes" in my post.

So yeah, there were Ye Olde Title, Army, and Estate Shoppes.
.

...and here's the part where you ignore the "but..." part of my post.

No, there weren't shoppes. Those things were not bought and sold as a part of the market economy, which is what a "magic shop" is.

Having magic items available from someone because you ingratiated yourself to them is one thing. Walking into "Bob's Used Wands" is another.

Most often, you tend to see the latter rather than the former in D&D campaigns.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I follow the gold piece limit in the DMG for town size. If the GP limit is 1000, then you can find any item that costs 1000gp or less. My players haven't asked about "magic shops" specifically, but they actually don't exist per se. I'm presuming that, for the GP price of an item listed, one can find what they want. There might be agents and brokers, people who know people who know where you can get what you want, etc... All these middlemen and third parties are why the prices you purchase an item for are twice as expensive as the price of crafting the item yourself.