D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[Art Waring]

the number of DMs is not really a hard cap though, people can choose the be DMs, just like they can choose to play a TTRPG in the first place

That second number is probably drastically increased by D&D (and by extension the number of DMs as well)

The astounding amount of forever GM's might disagree with you. GM retention is a problem, I won't pretend to have any solutions for it.

it’s not so much about what existing DMs do, it is about onboarding new players and DMs

The number of GM's that say they can't run non-dnd games due to pressure from players runs contrary to this.

I think you are confusing cause and effect, if the other games could attract much more players, D&D would not be as dominant. As it stands, it is D&D players branching out more than new players being attracted to most other games

This reasoning ignores the reality of the situation, that most people aren't aware of the rest of the industry at all. Dnd looms over and beyond the entire industry, there is no easier way you can explain other rpg's to someone who knows nothing about the hobby as "its like dnd." And most never look beyond wotc to see what else is out there.

If people don't know you exist, how can you attract players?

 

[Minigiant]

Wotc did this to themselves, repeatedly, but it seems like you are content to blame those who are pointing out their mistakes, rather than the source.

No other company tried to burn down the entire industry surrounding them. Most companies have co-existed for many years, and many employees move from one company to the next without any drama. A lot of creators in the industry all know each other, but from your account they are all blood-thirsty savages waiting for the walls of Rome to crumble.

Don't Trust Anybody

I'm not letting Hasbro's greed run me into the arms of anyone else and just advising everyone else to not do so either without so inspection of the source. Especially since Hasbro's grime is nearly completely inhuman and straight economic greed we've seen before.

Throw some entity away just to walk into another's trap. That's some fey or fiend scheme if I seen one. Wont be me. I search the room for traps with my ten foot pole.

 

[mamba]

The astounding amount of forever GM's might disagree with you. GM retention is a problem, I won't pretend to have any solutions for it.

forever DM still is not a hard cap, it just means players are much easier to find

The number of GM's that say they can't run non-dnd games due to pressure from players runs contrary to this.

not really a counter to the point I was making, more a tangent. The premise for my reply was D&D failing. It isn’t, so what players do today is not relevant to it

Also, if a DM wants to run a different game, they absolutely should. Try a one shot, see how the players like it and go from there

This reasoning ignores the reality of the situation, that most people aren't aware of the rest of the industry at all.

Not really, that is why D&D brings them in, and then they learn about other games and possibly branch out. I see no contradiction here

Some obviously do not branch out, but as long as D&D brings in more people that branch out than go the opposite route, it has a positive impact on other games

If people don't know you exist, how can you attract players?

precisely my point

 

[Warpiglet-7]

been there, done that (well, 1e and 2e), I have no real desire to go back, out of the D&Ds I like 5e best. I would like it more on the grittier side than superheroic, but I’d rather tweak 5e than go back to 1e


different strokes… there are plenty of games some people like that I have no interest in, it goes both ways

It does…and neither of them is right. Though I do tire of “oh you uncultured backwoods soul..you like hamburgers because you have not had pate”

I have not played AD&D since 1999…but we bought becmi and played with my son a few years back. It was fun as a one day thing.

I do now like 5e the best if I am being real. To each their own..

 

[Art Waring]

forever DM still is not a hard cap, it just means players are much easier to find


not really a counter to the point I was making, more a tangent. The premise for my reply was D&D failing. It isn’t, so what players do today is not relevant to it

Also, if a DM wants to run a different game, they absolutely should. Try a one shot, see how the players like it and go from there


Not really, that is why D&D brings them in, and then they learn about other games and possibly branch out. I see no contradiction here


precisely my point

Pretty sure we're in general agreement, but kind of talking past each other. I know dnd isn't failing, and won't probably for a very long time.

I just think its sad that most people don't know about all the other amazing games out there.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, will 5e fans be okay with mono colored text heavy paper books with little art because it's cheap?

I can't speak for others, but that's all I've ever needed personally.

 

[Clint_L]

Dnd isn't a gateway game that onboards players to try other games, it is becoming a closed garden where you just play dnd and nothing else.

This does not reflect my experience. Like most, I started with D&D, as a kid. It exposed me to role-playing games as a concept, and I have since played many, many different TTRPGs. And still do! But it definitely started with D&D.

With my beginner players at school, D&D is well known enough to attract lots of kids to give it a try - they've heard of it, maybe seen it on Stranger Things, or have parents who encourage them to join the club because they know of D&D (the culture has gone 180 degrees from Satanic panic!). I couldn't get anything like that kind of turnout for a Pathfinder Club, or a Call of Cthulhu Club. However, the players who get into D&D enough to start their own games, the ones who become DMs, almost inevitably get interested in finding out what else is out there. Just like I did at their age. In fact, after a few years some tend to see D&D as a bit de rigeur, and rebel against it.

So in my experience D&D is a gateway drug to other TTRPGs.

 

[Art Waring]

Don't Trust Anybody

I'm not letting Hasbro's greed run me into the arms of anyone else and just advising everyone else to not do so either without so inspection of the source. Especially since Hasbro's grime is nearly completely inhuman and straight economic greed we've seen before.

Throw some entity away just to walk into another's trap. That's some fey or fiend scheme if I seen one. Wont be me. I search the room for traps with my ten foot pole.

Yes, corporations aren't your friend. But not many of them resorted to wotc's tactics.

When Paizo's Pathfinder 1e was at the top of the sales charts during 4e, they didn't go into mega-greed mode declaring that their game is "undermonetized."

Paizo is also unionized, unlike wotc. They also have all of their rules up on the internet for free under open licenses, when wotc only released the 5.1 SRD into CC under pressure from DDB subscription cancellations to do something about the OGL debacle, and have yet to fulfill their promise to have the other SRD's (4e & 3.5) released into creative commons. The year ended, no new SRD's have been delivered.

Paizo also didn't call the Pinkerton's on one of their loyal customers and intimidate their family over a clerical error.

Not endorsing any companies out there, just showing that not every company exhibits same the behavior shown at wotc's c-suite level. In no way am I aiming this at employees in any gaming company, these decisions came solely from executives who care nothing for the game.

 

[Art Waring]

This does not reflect my experience. Like most, I started with D&D, as a kid. It exposed me to role-playing games as a concept, and I have since played many, many different TTRPGs. And still do! But it definitely started with D&D.

With my beginner players at school, D&D is well-known enough to attract lots of kids to give it a try - they've heard of it, maybe seen it on Stranger Things, or have parents who encourage them to join the club because they know of D&D (the culture has gone 180 degrees from Satanic panic!). I couldn't get anything like that kind of turnout for a Pathfinder Club, or a Call of Cthulhu Club. However, the players who get into D&D enough to start their own games, the ones who become DMs, almost inevitably get interested in finding out what else is out there. Just like I did at their age. In fact, after a few years some tend to see D&D as a bit de rigeur, and rebel against it.

So in my experience D&D is a gateway drug to other TTRPGs.

That's pretty cool, I really hope this is true

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'm not letting Hasbro's greed run me into the arms of anyone else and just advising everyone else to not do so either without so inspection of the source.

Do you realize that the entire line of argument you've been advancing in this thread makes you sound like you're advising us to stay in WotC's arms?