D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[TheSword]

I didn't update Kaidan to 5e. I created Arcane Armada, a collection of 13 new Spelljammer ships and deck plans, no species and monsters for a nebula based star system for 5e.

That makes sense, and explains why there was no links to Kaidan 5e.

I guess that just wasn’t the product to break into a new market. A niche addition to an already niche setting. To a group probably unfamiliar to the quality of your previous work.

I suspect if you converted Kaiden itself you would get a much better take up but I get that it would be a lot of work.

 

[gamerprinter]

That makes sense, and explains why there was no links to Kaidan 5e.

I guess that just wasn’t the product to break into a new market. A niche addition to an already niche setting. To a group probably unfamiliar to the quality of your previous work.

I suspect if you converted Kaiden itself you would get a much better take up but I get that it would be a lot of work.

Sure, but I never planned to create for 5e, I had been creating starship deck plans for Starfinder RPG, and some of my fans suggested I do deck plan for Spelljammer - that was the impetus to do it. Otherwise I never planned to go to 5e. And as stated in my first post, one could argue that PF has a smaller customer base than 5e, sure, but I sell PF products very successfully. My only attempt at doing it for 5e was miserable in sales.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, but I never planned to create for 5e, I had been creating starship deck plans for Starfinder RPG, and some of my fans suggested I do deck plan for Spelljammer - that was the impetus to do it. Otherwise I never planned to go to 5e. And as stated in my first post, one could argue that PF has a smaller customer base than 5e, sure, but I sell PF products very successfully. My only attempt at doing it for 5e was miserable in sales.

To be fair, there's a lot more 5e 3pp material on the market than there is for any version of PF. Easy for any given product to get lost.

 

[gamerprinter]

To be fair, there's a lot more 5e 3pp material on the market than there is for any version of PF. Easy for any given product to get lost.

I understand, but I even paid for advertising, and got very little sales. I've been spoiled. In the past, I create a product for Starfinder, post it on my Faceboook profile, and a bunch of sci-fi and Starfinder communities with a link, usually post on ENWorld, and that's about it, and I get a few hundred sales in the first month. If something seems really good it takes off. I published Starships, Stations and Salvage Guide for Starfinder, 4 years ago and it was the #1 3PP Starfinder product on DTRPG for 6 months! So I've had a lot more success with Starfinder than 5e without even trying too hard. So I thought a 5e product, might do better since it is a larger market, but as stated, it didn't do well. Maybe I could find a way to break through, but why try, when I can put much less effort in a Pathfinder/Starfinder release with much better expected sales. I don't feel keeping on trying to break through with 5e as being the most lucrative path - why pay to experiment, when I already have a reliable path for products without needs to experiment?

 

[Remathilis]

I understand, but I even paid for advertising, and got very little sales. I've been spoiled. In the past, I create a product for Starfinder, post it on my Faceboook profile, and a bunch of sci-fi and Starfinder communities with a link, usually post on ENWorld, and that's about it, and I get a few hundred sales in the first month. If something seems really good it takes off. I published Starships, Stations and Salvage Guide for Starfinder, 4 years ago and it was the #1 3PP Starfinder product on DTRPG for 6 months! So I've had a lot more success with Starfinder than 5e without even trying too hard. So I thought a 5e product, might do better since it is a larger market, but as stated, it didn't do well. Maybe I could find a way to break through, but why try, when I can put much less effort in a Pathfinder/Starfinder release with much better expected sales. I don't feel keeping on trying to break through with 5e as being the most lucrative path - why pay to experiment, when I already have a reliable path for products without needs to experiment?

I'm going to profess ignorance regarding the size of the PF/SF 3p community these days (I don't recall it being a huge part of PF1, although the massive catalogue of 3.5 stuff helped. I have no idea what SF of PF2's 3p area looks like). That said, it is utterly possible you went from being a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a massive pond by moving from Paizo to D&D's ecosystems.

That said, if you think you do better with Paizo, then do what will work. The 5e 3pp is a little more cutthroat and you have to really build up your rep to make a dent in it. Best of luck to you.

FWIW: I did look at the DMs Guild page for the product, and while it does look interesting (I say that as a fan of Shadow of the Spider Moon) there wasn't a whole lot to judge on it. There were two preview images and some sales copy, but no previews and a cost level that is hard to justify buying just on a whim. Just food for thought.

 

[gamerprinter]

I'm going to profess ignorance regarding the size of the PF/SF 3p community these days (I don't recall it being a huge part of PF1, although the massive catalogue of 3.5 stuff helped. I have no idea what SF of PF2's 3p area looks like). That said, it is utterly possible you went from being a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a massive pond by moving from Paizo to D&D's ecosystems.

That said, if you think you do better with Paizo, then do what will work. The 5e 3pp is a little more cutthroat and you have to really build up your rep to make a dent in it. Best of luck to you.

FWIW: I did look at the DMs Guild page for the product, and while it does look interesting (I say that as a fan of Shadow of the Spider Moon) there wasn't a whole lot to judge on it. There were two preview images and some sales copy, but no previews and a cost level that is hard to justify buying just on a whim. Just food for thought.

I always include preview pages, and in the small and large ones, I use different pages, but for whatever reason DM's Guild didn't update it, so they aren't showing it, but they exist...

But then again, though I was going to work on a Kaidan Star Empire - updating Kaidan to sci-fi 1000 years later for Starfinder, and still want to do that. There's a fantasy setting I put on the shelf 5 years ago, and started doing Starfinder instead due to opportunity at the time. Well I'm taken it off the shelf and needing to update it from PF1 to PF2, but I could make a 5e compatible version when I finish. I'm building my own Weird West setting called Gothic Western that uses the real Old West (not an analog) with real world events, and personalities like Wyatt Earp, Marie Laveau (voodoo queen of New Orleans), Nikola Tesla, etc. Cthulhu-based horror and Masonic conspiracy theory. Because it doesn't have to be 5e only, I'm open to making a 5e compatible version...

 

[Shardstone]

Sure, but I never planned to create for 5e, I had been creating starship deck plans for Starfinder RPG, and some of my fans suggested I do deck plan for Spelljammer - that was the impetus to do it. Otherwise I never planned to go to 5e. And as stated in my first post, one could argue that PF has a smaller customer base than 5e, sure, but I sell PF products very successfully. My only attempt at doing it for 5e was miserable in sales.

No, this tracks. The 5E playerbase is not that friendly to third party content. A good number of folks do well but, overall, there is a very clear difference IMO in reception, even with things like A5E and its third party vs 5E (with A5E third party being very much endorsed and embraced).

 

[Shardstone]

What's ironic is, despite the OGL stuff, I don't think WotC AGREES with the playerbase -- I think they very much want you to go to third party for stuff. But the player base itself, in general, is just very much against non-first party content.

 

[Greg K]

What's ironic is, despite the OGL stuff, I don't think WotC AGREES with the playerbase -- I think they very much want you to go to third party for stuff. But the player base itself, in general, is just very much against non-first party content.

where as I am one of those people that looks to third party content, because I don't like the supplements WOTC puts out.

 

[jayoungr]

If you love 5e, as I do, don’t throw it out just because you’re mad at one company publishing material for it. 5e is ours and I personally think it’s awesome. You’re not hurting anyone or supporting the wrong group by buing products for it, running it, and playing it.

Game on.

I haven't read the whole discussion, but I just wanted to say thank you for this post. It's really disheartening to see how many people have started to regard even playing 5E as morally suspect, even if you are using materials you bought before everything went south or even from the Creative Commons version.