DR vs. spells that do "physical" damage

[Nareau]

I understand that DR doesn't apply to damage done by spells.

What are your thoughts about this? I can kinda understand the magic-theory of it: Blade Barrier isn't acutally creating normal, physical knives that cut into you, it's creating a magical effect that simulates knives cutting you. But what about when a druid casts Transmute Rock to Mud to cause the ceiling to collapse on his enemies? It seems to me that it's not the spell that's doing the damage, but rather the mass of falling mud. Shouldn't a creature that's resistant non-magical weapons be resistant to a bunch of non-magical mud that falls on its head?

I'm considering proposing a house-rule to change this. Basically, any spell that does "physical damage"--Blade Barrier, Transmute Rock to Mud, Insect Plague, etc. could be resisted by DR, but not by SR. I'm thinking this would make life tougher for the PC's, since they tend to have a lot less DR than the monsters they face. It would give them a better chance to hurt certain high SR monsters, though.

Are there other problematic effects I'm overlooking? I certainly wouldn't just *impose* this kind of rule...I'd make sure my players were in agreement with me first. But I figured I'd for input here before even suggesting it to my group.

Spider

 

[Staffan]

The easy way of doing it would be to check the SR line in the spell description. If the spell can be stopped by SR, the damage is magical enough that DR won't help. If SR won't help, DR will because the spell is working through an intermediary.

 

[Voadam]

Isn't blade barrier, Mordenkainen's sword and magic missile all force effects, a type of energy and so not subject to DR?

In your rock to mud to cause the nonmagical ceiling to drop on an opponent he should be protected by DR as normal against damage from nonmagical rocks (such as boulder throwing or a mechanical trap).

I haven't looked at insect plague or the summon spells in a while but if it summons insects and the insects attack then SR should not be applicable and DR should, just as with any summoned monster.

 

[Pielorinho]

God. Much as I hate to admit it (since this probably nerfs my character in Spider's game), I'm in favor of the rule suggested above.

Every magical, hit-point-damaging attack in the game is subject to exactly one of the following two effects:
-SR
-DR

A very few nonmagical attacks (e.g., Alchemist's fire) are subject to neither. Nothing in the game is subject to both, as near as I can tell.

Daniel

 

[LokiDR]

DR is already figured into some spells, such as Creaping Doom.

I would say damage is either covered by DR, SR or elemental resistance. Resistance can overlap the others, but SR and DR shouldn't overlap.

 

[vanguard13]

DR & SR

DR- I say that damage reduction applies to any physical damage done to something. It represents that you need a magic plus something weapon or better to hurt me or else I shave off this number from your damage rolls per hit all the way down to 0. If I am 5/+1 than any rocks that hit my head from above will not hurt me unless one of them is that big that it does 6 or more points of damage or else that rock is enchanted in some way to make it equivalent to a +1 or better. A vein of mithral falling on my head would ignore my DR here since the metal itself is enchanted at least to a +1 level.

SR- I say that spell resistance applies only to the person and any gear that he is carrying. It only comes into play when the person himself is the target of a magical or enchanted attack. I have SR 18 because of this cool ring I am wearing. That fireball your mage cast at me had no effect since I am a target of the spell's area of effect. Though the fireball started a small fire that burned my foot a few rounds later as I had to run through it to avoid the druid's Transmute Rock to Mud spell above my head. That cave-in would have gotten me since the target of the spell was the ceiling and not me. The rocks on my head would be a result of the spell and not the spell itself so my SR would not help me here.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: DR & SR

A vein of mithral falling on my head would ignore my DR here since the metal itself is enchanted at least to a +1 level.

Mithral falls below +1 on the D&D 3e scale, so that mithral is no different than an other rock.

SR- .... It only comes into play when the person himself is the target of a magical or enchanted attack. .... That fireball your mage cast at me had no effect since I am a target of the spell's area of effect.

You are not the target of the spell in D&D terms, you are in the area of effect. That is different than targeted.

 

[vanguard13]

I would say that SR applies regardless of whether the guy is the direct target or just a bystander in the spell's area of effect.
1st edition MR worked this way and it should not be changed now. I could understand the mithral grade below a +1 because it would be unrefined enchanted metal in that state.

 

[Stalker0]

If the spell actually causes damage don't use DR. Rock to mud doensn't cause damage, it causes mud. If the mud happens to fall on you, you take damage normally, DR applying.

If the cast the mount spell, and you mistreat the mount and it bites you, you get DR for that

 

[Destil]

Of course rocks falling on your head (because someone lightning bolted a stlagtight or something) should apply DR just as much as rocks dropped by a goblin.

For spells the arguement of one or the other works in some cases, but not others.... Evards Black Tentacles dosn't allow SR, but DR should work, same deal with the damage from a summoned monster. But what if you had a spell that created a flask of acid you could throw... AR & DR shouldn't apply (any more than DR affects normal acid, since that's what the spell produces). BUT this is a general rule of DR, DR dosn't affecty energy damage dealt as the result of an attack, like a fire elemental (even one summoned through a spell)...

The one or the other arguement is flawed for non-spells, though. Only spells and spell like abilities are affected by SR. Not supernatural or extrodanary effects (dragon breath, acid, lava et cetera).