• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

Dragonborn in Faerun

Again, you can't have it both ways. You can't argue that strange creatures are so rarely seen that they wouldn't be accepted while at the same time they are so common that travel is extremely difficult. If they are so common and in such large numbers that travel in FR looks more like travel in Dark Sun, then they aren't going to be so strange that everyone freaks out when they see someone who looks a bit weird.

Oh and you made a point above [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION], that race does not determine perspectives and values.

That's not true in DND.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Again, you can't have it both ways. You can't argue that strange creatures are so rarely seen that they wouldn't be accepted while at the same time they are so common that travel is extremely difficult. If they are so common and in such large numbers that travel in FR looks more like travel in Dark Sun, then they aren't going to be so strange that everyone freaks out when they see someone who looks a bit weird.

Oh and you made a point above [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION], that race does not determine perspectives and values.

That's not true in DND.

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Monsters of all sorts of types are quite common in the Realms, and are part of what makes travel difficult. A large number of them are dangerous.

In any society there is 'normal.' In the Realms, normal are the Tolkienesque races, along with dragons, undead, owlbears, orcs and goblins, drow, etc. Normal doesn't mean liked. Many of these normal things are known dangers and cause for an immediate attack if possible.

Normal is also regional. What's normal in Calimshan is different than the Dalelands and differnt again in Icewind Dale. Our baseline in this world is that a lot of what's in the Realms is not normal. But that doesn't mean that they would acknowledge everything they run into as normal.

Dragonborn are not part of 'normal' for the Realms. At least not when they arrived, and not when it's the first time a specific somebody sees them. They are unknown until that time, so they may not be immediately hostile, but in a world where unknown can often be dangerous, they would likely tend toward suspicious. When something is visibly larger than you, and possibly more powerful, and armed, then you will probably be wary of them. If they have heard of them, and that they aren't a danger, they they would likely be more curious. Probably still staying mostly at a distance, and staring or pointing at the strange creature.

For example, the Dalesfolk are described as 'seem(ingly) close-mouthed, suspicious, and reserved. Until newcomers are identified as friends or foes, or vouched for by a trusted friend, Dalesfolk prefer civil silence to empty pleasantries.'

This is to all outsiders. But they've seen elves, dwarves, gnomes, half-elves, half-orcs, etc. What they have not seen until they arrived was a 7'-tall dragonman. So they would probably be a bit more wary than just another elf. Because elves are normal.

In Cormyr, because it is a land with strong regular patrols that protect the populace, and unless it's a time where a lot of monster raids and such are occuring, they probably feel fairly safe, and that if somebody is walking openly on the roads, the Purple Dragons have deemed them safe. In that case they'd probably be more curious.

But I've never argued that strange creatures are rarely seen. I've said that strange dragonborn are rarely seen. Intelligent races, as in those that don't look largely human, elven, dwarvish, halfling, or gnome which are races that have been established across Faerun for centuries are not commonly seen. As in never until a dragonborn wanders into town. Something that doesn't fit that mold is different, foreign, possibly dangerous. Just because the creatures that are normal to the Realmsfolk are strange to us doesn't mean that they don't have a threshold where normal passes into strange.

In my opinion, 100 years is a very short time for a new race to establish themselves locally, much less spread across a continent as large as Faerun. Some have traveled, and to those that care about such things (such as merchants) have heard that they are good mercenaries. An average villager cares nothing of good mercenaries, and probably hasn't heard anything about them, other than possibly a tale about this strange dragon-man that was seen with a caravan to the east.

Word of mouth tends to travel slowly in a world like the Realms. It takes a month to get from Waterdeep to Baldur's Gate, and longer to spread beyond that. It's dependent upon people that care and what gossip they pass on, and it grows less reliable the farther it travels.

Numerous dragon-men, both dragonborn and half-dragons, were actively working with the Cult of the Dragon in the Sword Coast and elsewhere. For those that saw that, it colors their opinion. For those that hear about it, it colors their opinion. If a new threat may be rising, people listen. That is the sort of stuff that spreads by word of mouth. Thus, it's far more likely that they would have heard of the dragonborn in a negative light. Combine that with Unther returning, and news starts to trickle out that they are driving back the evil dragon-men that tried to conquer their nation, and the negative news continues.

Again, this all depends on what your frame of reference is regarding the Realms.

Yes, in D&D race is often a shorthand for their general philosophy. But the elvish people in the Realms hold many philosophies, all colored by their history. The humans too, have a great many perspectives and such. Most of these are tied to a deity that helps clarify their positions. Most drow worship Lolth, and their culture reflects this. But those who worship Eilistraee have a very different one. In addition, the general philosophies of elves in the Realms is different than other worlds. Just like the other races.

Ilbranteloth
 

Don't know how I missed this introduction in the SCAG.

'Draconian humanoids from another world, the dragonborn of Farren are proud, honorable, and relatively rare.'

Ilbranteloth
 

Hang on, according to the Sword Coast map, it's about 600 miles from Baldurs Gate to Waterdeep. Is that right? With roads the entire way. Well traveled roads with lots of way stations and the like. 20 miles a day? I suppose, for a wagon, although mounted travelers should be able to go much faster than this. When you talk about how long it takes, what kind of travel are you talking about?
 


Hang on, according to the Sword Coast map, it's about 600 miles from Baldurs Gate to Waterdeep. Is that right? With roads the entire way. Well traveled roads with lots of way stations and the like. 20 miles a day? I suppose, for a wagon, although mounted travelers should be able to go much faster than this. When you talk about how long it takes, what kind of travel are you talking about?

That's the published travel time from several past supplements.

This has been a topic of much debate in the past. Waterdeep to Cormyr is about double the distance, plus through some mountain passes, and took about 2 to 2 1/2 months on average. A Cormyrean merchant could expect to make it to Waterdeep and back once in a trading season (spring to autumn) with stops along the way.

The roads in the Forgotten Realms are a mix of dirt and grass, with enough space for two wagons to pass. In some portions there is enough space for 4 wagons wide.

Overland travel in the PHB/DMG for the various editions is quite optimistic for long range travel. Most travel is via caravan, as it's the safest. These are described in various locations as well, but usually include a couple of extra wagons loaded with basic weapons for defense, extra axles and wheels, and the wagons themselves can be used as spares. Four or more wagons of food and water are the norm, and the caravan itself gets fairly large, with dozens of wagons and a lot of people. Wagons are typically hauled by mules, sometimes oxen. The oxen are slower, but require fewer rests and can subsist on lower quality food. A typical day of travel, including stops, in a caravan of this nature is 15 to 20 miles a day.

A party on foot can travel faster, of course, but the 30 miles a day is extremely optimistic. Most of the experienced people that contributed to earlier conversations, as well as some research online, says 10 miles a day is average when carrying a loaded pack, particularly if we're talking people wearing armor and having periodic encounters on the way. An exceptional day would be 20 miles.

Horseback isn't much quicker. You might get 30 miles/day, or even double that, but then the horse needs to rest for a day or two, so you still end up with about a 20 miles/day average. The advantage of horses for long distance travel is not speed, but how much you can carry.

The Pony Express could manage a trip across the US in about 10 days, but they changed to a fresh horse every 10 miles, and a fresh rider after 75-100 miles and rode day and night. The load wasn't allowed to be more than 175 lbs including the rider.

The same technique was used on the Persian Royal Road (2,800 miles) allowing frequent changes of horse and rider to move messages (official business, not gossip) taking about 9 days. Regular travelers on the same road took about 3 months.

This is part of why I say news travels slowly. Somebody spotting a dragonborn for the first time in Cormyr has to consider it newsworthy enough to even have a story to tell. That's most likely going to be something of great heroism, like slaying a dragon or defending their village, or the opposite, such as being spotted in a battle against the Cult of the Dragon. Two months later the news might make it to Waterdeep. But unless there's a regular flow of stuff about dragonborn, the news (and they) just don't kind of exist until there is something of significant, and preferably, repetitive in nature. If the news doesn't make it this summer, then it probably won't get there until the next.

Sea travel is much faster, obviously, but that's limited, and only reaches so far up river. From the Sea of Fallen Stars to the Sword Coast it's all by land, and difficult and monster infested land at that. Mostly through mountain passes. The Zhentarim cut across Anauroch, to get a shorter route to the west, and perhaps that was enough to make two trips each year. Another likely route would be to head from Cormyr and the Heartlands to the North in the spring, then south to Baldur's Gate and the southern lands coming back east in the following spring. That way you could continue to travel with your wares year round, and it would take a full year to return 'home.' Depending on the actual route it could take longer. A round trip on the Silk Road from Rome to China (4,000 miles) and back was a two year trip.

Another factor in the Forgotten Realms is that the maps have changed, somewhat significantly. The 3rd edition that they squished the southeast northward, to better fit the sheets of paper, which shortened travel routes by a significant margin (by at least 1000 miles in some directions if I recall). The 4th edition squished the entire continent more by using a different scale if I recall. I can't find the specifics right now, but I never really used the 4th edition maps, and when I did I didn't have to worry about measuring distances. The 5th edition maps seem to be on the same scale as the 3rd edition ones.

Ilbranteloth
 

From City of Splendors Box Set (2nd edition)

Land Routes
Blackford Road (Luskan to Mirabar): 7 days.

East Trail (Waterdeep to Llorkh): Secomber, 11 days; Loudwater, 20 days; Llorkh, 27 days.

Evermoor Way (Triboar to Silverymoon): Yartar, 2 days; Everlund, 15 days; Silverymoon, 20 days.

High Road, north (Waterdeep to Luskan): Leilon, 11 days; Neverwinter, 17 days; Port Llast, 19 days; Luskan, 23 days.

High Road, south (Waterdeep to Baldur’s Gate): 32 days.

Long Road, north (Waterdeep to Mirabar): Red Larch, 7 days; Triboar, 13 days; Longsaddle, 18 days; Mirabar, 26 days.

Silverymoon Pass (Silverymoon to Sundabar): 6 days.

Water Routes
Sea of Swords, Coast route by ship: Waterdeep to Luskan, 6 days; Luskan to Waterdeep, 8 days. Waterdeep to Baldur's ’s Gate, 9 days; Baldur’s Gate to Waterdeep, 7 days.

River Dessarin, by barge: (Waterdeep (start at Zundbridge) to Silverymoon): Ironford, 6 days; The Stone Bridge, 14 days; Yartar, 20 days; Nesmé, 30 days; Silverymoon, 43 days. Silverymoon to Waterdeep by river, reduce all times by 1/3.

Ilbranteloth
 


To the best of my knowledge it is 100+ years since they arrived with the spell plague.

Which would seem to me enough time that, unless you were really sheltered and out-of-the-way, you'd have heard something about them. Hell's bells, if these people have anything like a European lifespan (a bit over 5 decades for the unlucky, shy of 7 for the lucky), at least one generation has been born and died since they appeared. That could even have happened twice, back to back (born-lived-died then that same day another child is born, it lives and dies). And for humans, at least, it'd be at least four and possibly as many as seven "proper" generations (that is, from birth to giving birth) since they arrived; 100/25 = 4 as a minimum; add 1 for overlap (people alive at the time they arrived), and assume 120 years and a 20-year birth-to-birth time, and that's what you get (120/20 + 1 = 7). That's sort of the equivalent of being shocked and horrified by people descended from immigrants that arrived during your great-great-grandparents' lifetime, at the most recent.

And, unless I'm mistaken, FR's dragonborn spread out from Tymanther for pretty much that whole time ("A whole world NOT enslaved by dragons, even a little bit?! IT MUST BE WONDERFUL!") But given the real and meaningful differences, I wouldn't be surprised if they congregate in specific areas in other cities--a "dragonborn quarter" or "dragontown," if you will. :P But oddities like "I don't think they worship gods at all!" should surely come up now and again...and over

Also I have to say: The more I use the word "dragonborn," the more I hate it. Call 'em Tymantherians, call 'em Evans' "vayemniri," call 'em Arkhosians, something, because that oh-so-"functional" name is getting tiresome.

As always: it's your world, do what you want with it. But people who have been around and slowly, steadily spreading through the world for over a century...don't feel like something that should be sending many, let alone most, shopkeepers running for the hills and townsfolk to their local Torches-N'-Pitchforks-R-Us. It could--particularly if you intentionally play up the racism, exclusionism, and suspiciousness of the townsfolk-type people in your world. But it's far, far from required.
 

There is also the fact that there has been war, and upheaval during those 100 years. That moves people, that puts people into new areas, exposes them to others, mercenaries do their thing. After reading the last two of Evan's books I think she shows how the other races could interact and its pretty (very imo) good.
 

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top