D&D 5E Dragonborn (w/Fizbans) Still Suck?

[Parmandur]

Can you imagine how much easier it would be to balance classes and produce new stuff if every class had the same amount of resources?

What a world that would be!

A bit flat, in practice. However, all the 5E Classes have the same underlying "currency" for everything: HP. I'd cite the source, but the Mike Mearls Happy Hour is long gone from the web.

 

[HammerMan]

Being able to replace one of your attacks with the breath weapon instead of having to use your action just to use it is a big improvement for martial characters. Doesn’t make any difference for characters without extra attack.

yes but it is HUGE for fighters and pretty important for other multi attackers (We did have an interesting question on ranger things but it is mostly good)

Prof bonus uses between long rests instead of one use between short rests is something I hate to see, but it’s the way the wind is blowing.

yeah, agree I like the short rest recharge, but I don't think it is a huge issue

All breath weapons being a 15 foot cone instead of some being a 5 foot by 30 foot line is a wash on paper - same total square footage in either case. In practice though, I think it’s going to be much easier to hit multiple opponents with a 15 foot cone, so this may be an improvement for some, if you really wanted to have like a blue dragon ancestor but wanted a cone instead of a line. On the other hand, it does mean no more line breath weapons for those who did want them, and in my opinion it’s a big flavor fail.

flavor I liked the different sizes and shapes but I get why for mechanics it was easier to just make them all the same.

Verdict: Breath weapon is significantly improved, even though some of the changes make me grumble.

yup

On top of that, dragonborn now get a 1/long rest ability based on subtype at 5th level: immunity to a damage type for 1 minute for chromatic, 1 minute fly speed with hover for gem, and a secondary breath weapon that can cause 1 round of incapacitation or a 20 foot push and knock prone for metallic. All three of these seem really nice, and fairly on par with other racial features that grant one use of a spell (usually 2nd level) per long rest at 5th level. Gem dragonborn also get at-will telepathy, which is potentially very useful.

Verdict: A solid addition that makes dragonborn more appealing next to innate casting races like Tieflings and Drow.

yup great summation

Still no Darkvision which is crazy to me since all dragons have Darkvision.

that is a big head scratcher... its like less then 5 races that don't get it. IF darkvision was the exception I would think dragon born would be one to get it...

 

[Charlaquin]

A bit flat, in practice.

It can be, but I think it sorta depends on how it’s done. At any rate, I definitely do prefer different classes having different resource management as that does go a long way towards making them feel different to one another. That’s why my favorite 5e classes are warlock, rogue, and (battlemaster) fighter, because all three break that predictable spell progression structure. Monk is a distant 4th, being hampered by its built-in orientalism.

However, all the 5E Classes have the same underlying "currency" for everything: HP. I'd cite the source, but the Mike Mearls Happy Hour is long gone from the web.

Shame too, it was some really great insight into the design philosophy of 5e. I know seeing behind the curtain ruins the magic for some people, but I like knowing how things tick, and especially why the decisions behind their design were made.

 

[Charlaquin]

that is a big head scratcher... its like less then 5 races that don't get it. IF darkvision was the exception I would think dragon born would be one to get it...

Personally I just give it to them. I know there are folks who think it’s like crazy powerful or whatever, but to me it’s basically a ribbon feature (again, if disadvantage on perception is a meaningful penalty in your campaigns, darkvision races will still want light sources). It makes flavor sense and it gives them just a bit more of a boost to feel more appealing next to other race options.

 

[HammerMan]

Personally I just give it to them. I know there are folks who think it’s like crazy powerful or whatever, but to me it’s basically a ribbon feature (again, if disadvantage on perception is a meaningful penalty in your campaigns, darkvision races will still want light sources). It makes flavor sense and it gives them just a bit more of a boost to feel more appealing next to other race options.

I go game by game... if half or more of the players have darkvision I will give it to anyone who wants it... yeah sign me up for it to be a slightly useful ribbon that is not even always that useful...

 

[Parmandur]

Personally I just give it to them. I know there are folks who think it’s like crazy powerful or whatever, but to me it’s basically a ribbon feature (again, if disadvantage on perception is a meaningful penalty in your campaigns, darkvision races will still want light sources). It makes flavor sense and it gives them just a bit more of a boost to feel more appealing next to other race options.

Main issue is that Darkvision replicates the power of a 2nd Level Spell with a 60 second duration, that's always on. Not as powerful as at will flight (which is 3rd Level alot worthy for 60 seconds), but as good as some Warlock Invocations in WotC's internal calculus apparently.

 

[Charlaquin]

Main issue is that Darkvision replicates the power of a 2nd Level Spell with a 60 second duration, that's always on. Not as powerful as at will flight (which is 3rd Level alot worthy for 60 seconds), but as good as some Warlock Invocations in WotC's internal calculus apparently.

I’d consider that an overvaluing of the spell. I mean, I know it’s how the game values it, but… It’s a bad spell. It’s useless to characters of all but a few races, and those that can use it get a greater benefit from the light cantrip. Or a 1cp torch. The only time you’d ever want to use it is if you’re a human or halfling (or dragonborn) who wants to sneak around a dark place and either has the Skulker feat or doesn’t mind disadvantage on perception. In that specific situation is it worth a 2nd level spell slot? I don’t know, maybe. But I’m inclined to say probably not.

 

[Zardnaar]

I’d consider that an overvaluing of the spell. I mean, I know it’s how the game values it, but… It’s a bad spell. It’s useless to characters of all but a few races, and those that can use it get a greater benefit from the light cantrip. Or a 1cp torch. The only time you’d ever want to use it is if you’re a human or halfling (or dragonborn) who wants to sneak around a dark place and either has the Skulker fear or doesn’t mind disadvantage on perception. In that specific situation is it worth a 2nd level spell slot? I don’t know, maybe. But I’m inclined to say probably not.

It's really a lvl 1 spell. It's level 2 for legacy reasons.

 

[Charlaquin]

It's really a lvl 1 spell. It's level 2 for legacy reasons.

Level 1 would definitely be more reasonable. Or have the spell version work in magical darkness. Or both, honestly.

 

[Parmandur]

I’d consider that an overvaluing of the spell. I mean, I know it’s how the game values it, but… It’s a bad spell. It’s useless to characters of all but a few races, and those that can use it get a greater benefit from the light cantrip. Or a 1cp torch. The only time you’d ever want to use it is if you’re a human or halfling (or dragonborn) who wants to sneak around a dark place and either has the Skulker feat or doesn’t mind disadvantage on perception. In that specific situation is it worth a 2nd level spell slot? I don’t know, maybe. But I’m inclined to say probably not.

I mean, larger body of people play Humans, so it does come up.