Dragonlance 4e in 2010?

[lrsach01]

I remember once working out a backstory whereby the Dark Sun world of Athas was actually Krynn, a couple thousand years later, in the timeline where Raistlin killed all the gods.

That's actually a pretty good idea. I think I'll steal it.

 

[Cam Banks]

I sure everyone did they're best, and I've said nothing but good things about everyone involved in the DL3e project. That being said, it worries me that there were several times in which stuff was snuck in that had nothing to do with the novels or any other prior gaming materials.
Now when I saw that stuff I was like "oh my, how clever. But that's not Dragonlance". Many of these things came as modifications of earlier DL Nexus stuff. That is a textbook example of fanon-to-canon.

Do you have any examples? I'm keen to know what these non-DL things are.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[carmachu]

See that's what really bugs me. Dragonlance fans were frustrated for 10 years where the only books released were prequels of the WotL, and no modules were released. So when they finally did advance the storyline, any criticism of that storyline is seen as wanting to return to the previous way the brand was managed badly. That's a false dichotomy.

What do you folks really expect?The war of the lance is the iconic part of Dragonlance. Its what made the brand. Without it and much of the fruit it bore, it wouldnt be popular.Much of the SAGA stuff on wasnt that good. And moved away from what made it good. *shrug*

 

[Dragonhelm]

And it was a very nice adventure, too. However, most of the fellows that did Dl3e came from the old DL3e website, so compared to "classic" 'lance, it becomes just like the Magius language or like Noble Draconians: expanded universe aka, largely apocryphal, or to put it in the TVtropes.org way, the Inmates Running the Asylum.

It's kind of crazy that way.

Hell, most of the old fans that got out of DL don't count the Summer of Chaos onwards, as it was that stuff that alienated them from the setting.

Yet many came back with the War of Souls. Many of the old wounds have healed. And in any setting, some fans go and new ones hop aboard.

Personally, while not a big fan of the Chaos War, I loved the War of Souls. It shook up the landscape, introduced new religious conflicts and new moral conflicts, and finally passed the torch from the Heroes of the Lance to the new generation. I thought it was long overdue and tastefully done, whereas the Chaos War seemed rushed and half-planned.

War of Souls did many things. It healed many of the rifts in the fan base, creating the foundation for a setting that was whole and complete. The focus was forced off of Paladine and Takhisis. All four types of magic exist at one time. The torch is passed on to new heroes. The political landscape has changed.

As for the Chaos War, it seems rushed because it was a trilogy packed into a single novel. Plans changed with that novel, taking the Chronicles II series down to a single volume, which was Chronicles volume 4. The end result is Dragons of Summer Flame.

Besides, I absolutely adore the Klingon-esque minotaurs; the Krynnish version has always been one of my favorite D&D races.

For that, they will spare you.

As for tinker gnomes, well... tinker gnomes have become a universal concept in modern fantasy. Look at Spelljammer and Planescape. Heck, look at World of Warcraft! Tinker gnomes are no longer a strange concept that can only be played for comic relief.

For all the anti-gnome talk, they sure are popular enough. They're everywhere! Beyond your mentions, I've seen them in d20 Modern as well as various other places.

... I grant you that gully dwarves, however, are comic relief. They've never shown up in my stories as anything else, and so are expendable as a concept at my table. Still, I don't ban them... who knows, maybe some day a good player will get ahold of the idea and impress me with it.

I played a gully dwarf named Bugr (Booger) once. He died in the Dwarfgate Wars just being the servant of another dwarf who got in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Dragonhelm]

We should probably take a closer look at a few things...

2) Mina replaced both Paladine & Takhisis as goddess of good and evil simultaneously

She did not replace them so much as she is an addition to the setting. Her unique nature means that the Balance is not disrupted.

3) Shinare replaced Paladine as one of the patrons of the Knights of Solamnia. Shinare is the neutral goddess of trade.

Also a goddess of binding contracts. One such contract would be a social contract - an oath. The Knights of Solamnia highly respect oaths. Ergo, she represents oaths to the Solamnic order.

I should also clarify that she didn't replace Paladine in the Solamnic Triumvirate. Kiri-Jolith became the primary patron of the Knighthood, Habbakuk is still there (though he has a slightly less presence), and Shinare joined the group as the junior member, so to speak, as the goddess of oaths.

5) Krynn was stolen and put in a new galaxy, where the gods couldn't find it.

It's in a different point in space. This could mean a different dimension or crystal sphere. However, it was never stated that it was another galaxy.

 

[Banshee16]

The Dray. I'd forgotten about the dray. That could work. I'm not so sure about the tieflings. However, as long as the race is changed to fit into the setting instead of the other way around... then that might be okay.

But no gnomes, or orcs. And keep the PoL cosmology away from Athas!

Yeah, the Drey, them. They were actually kind of cool. Partly just because they were like miniature Dragons of Athas.....and that creature was the creepiest dragon I've seen in any setting. It just felt...."wrong", and it was so hyper-powerful, it was sick.

The tieflings, I'm not as sure about.

Other stuff though, would concern me. Like, I wouldn't want to see them inject paladins into the game. One thing I *didn't* like about WotC's innovations in 3E was that any race/class should fit into any setting, even when it was a poor fit. I preferred the 2nd Ed. method of creating some of the flavour in a campaign through limitation. In 4E, it seems like they still want to allow any race or class anywhere.....eladrin in FR? Sure....just replace gold elves, or rules that they've always been there. But by doing that, I think they detract from both FR, and the eladrin. With a race like them, I actually didn't think they were alien enough for 4E. They're supposed to be an otherworldly race of faerie-lords....but to look at their stats, it sure doesn't seem like it.

Banshee

 

[Derren]

Wow do you not know what you're talking about. 1986... Drizzt kills a white dragon... go look at how many hit points white dragons had in 1e.

And the DL Chronicles were written when? 2003 with 3E being the current setting of D&D?
No, they were written 1984-1985 and had the same low HP dragons which was around when Salvatore started with Drizzt. Yet in the Chronicles no one solos a dragon without an artifact as backup. The full group had a hard time against one black dragon and the only time when a hero tried to attack a dragon alone he got killed in an instant while only inflicting a very minor wound.

What traditional sense? Points of light is still a new concept, so there hasn't been any time to establish a tradition. Perhaps WotC wants to expand how we define points of light.

With traditional sense I mean the way WotC defines PoL. Where the commoners don't dare to leave their village as travel is dangerous and every village is for itself and when one of them falls no one will notice unless the PCs visit that village.

Except that does not work. Even after the long years of war Krynn is more civilized than that where city states and kingdoms rule the majority of the continent and the danger does not come from wandering bands of monsters no one (except the PCs) can stop, but from armies trying to conquer the land.

Its more so that they try and shoehorn 4e general stuff into each setting. So now there's tieflings and dragonborn in Dragonlance and the magic system could not revolve around the cycles of Krynn's moons.

Exactly. WotC will try to insert everything from 4E into DL and to do that they will butcher the entire setting as many thing don't fit. It happened in FR and it will happen in DL, except worse as DL is not a kitchen sink like FR and it is even harder to insert 4E mechanic there.

 

[ferratus]

Yet in the Chronicles no one solos a dragon without an artifact as backup. The full group had a hard time against one black dragon and the only time when a hero tried to attack a dragon alone he got killed in an instant while only inflicting a very minor wound.

You mean the companions need to be about 2nd-4th level to take on a black dragon, and they'll have a hard time doing it?

Wow, that seems as if the encounter was tailor made for 4e! A party of that level, facing a young black dragon, would indeed be in a great deal of trouble in 4e.

Except that does not work. Even after the long years of war Krynn is more civilized than that where city states and kingdoms rule the majority of the continent and the danger does not come from wandering bands of monsters no one (except the PCs) can stop, but from armies trying to conquer the land.

See, I'd blame that on poor editorial control. In the beginning of Chronicles travelling around various nations was very limited. So much so that nobody among the 800 or so refugees knew that Tarsis was no longer a seaport, despite the fact that it was just a couple hundred miles away.

Likewise, nobody knew about the big honking perpetual storm in the Blood Sea among the companions. No one knew the fate of Xak Tsaroth. Elves, dwarves and humans all hated each other, and nobody had entered the respective lands of each other in a couple hundred years. Everything was very mysterious and unknown to the adventuring party.

Later books acted as if the state of the world was common knowledge to people and everyone moved around everywhere. A reboot would be all that is needed to bring the 4e PoL feeling back.

Exactly. WotC will try to insert everything from 4E into DL and to do that they will butcher the entire setting as many thing don't fit. It happened in FR and it will happen in DL, except worse as DL is not a kitchen sink like FR and it is even harder to insert 4E mechanic there.

FR wasn't butchered because of the edition changes, but the story changes.

Besides, I wouldn't say it is butchered per say. It is still a good setting, with lots of variety and story hooks. It just isn't the same setting that it was.

Also, the person you are replying to, qstor is simply wrong. There is no reason you can't have magic revolve around Krynn's moons. Bonuses to arcana checks in rituals, extra castings of ecounter powers, and bonuses to will defenses are a good translation of "increased level, extra spells, and increased saving throw" respectively. Those are the bonuses you got in 1e when the moons were full and aligned with each other.

 

[Vocenoctum]

See, I'd blame that on poor editorial control. In the beginning of Chronicles travelling around various nations was very limited. So much so that nobody among the 800 or so refugees knew that Tarsis was no longer a seaport, despite the fact that it was just a couple hundred miles away.

Likewise, nobody knew about the big honking perpetual storm in the Blood Sea among the companions. No one knew the fate of Xak Tsaroth. Elves, dwarves and humans all hated each other, and nobody had entered the respective lands of each other in a couple hundred years. Everything was very mysterious and unknown to the adventuring party.

The plainsfolk didn't travel a lot, but they really never said that was because it was unsafe to travel. The book covered the Companions discovering the world, rather than the world. In many ways it was a bit silly, since many of the companions DID go out and explore greatly alone, and still didn't know much.

IIRC, their choice in Tarsis was because other directions were unsafe due to the army coming in, rather than "it's always been full of goblin raiders".

As they get out more, they meet folks that are more traveled and more familiar with a world map and some of that ignorance is discarded to tell a grander story.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Who REALLY wants to play through the War of the Lance OVER AND OVER again (yeah.. I bought the updated versions... sure me). )

I don't know if I would ... BUT "War of the Lance" would make a kickass adventure path in Dungeon.

Actually, if all we got was a "War of the Lance" AP that was set in PoLand (which is not the same as Poland ), with continents, cities, and personalities from DL but not explicitly on Krynn, that would be cool with me.