Dragonlance [Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?

[cbwjm]

Anyone thought about that whatever the deities did to the faithless before the wall was just as unfair and horrible?

Maybe Myrkul didn't etablish a cruel punishment where there was none before, he just put up the fall as a mostly automatic process of punishment because he was too lazy to do the former, more work intensive, stuff

True, who knows what he had to do before as one of his tasks, it may have required constant oversight which even a god could grow tired of.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Anyone thought about that whatever the deities did to the faithless before the wall was just as unfair and horrible?

Maybe Myrkul didn't etablish a cruel punishment where there was none before, he just put up the fall as a mostly automatic process of punishment because he was too lazy to do the former, more work intensive, stuff

Considering Myrkul's personality of being cruel and desiring to instill fear in all mortals of his power.... I doubt it.

Also, again, no evidence of it. The text tells us he established the Wall as a punishment, not as a time saving measure because he was too lazy.

 

[Alzrius]

The text tells us he established the Wall

Point of clarification: which text was that?

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I know Neverwinter Nights 2 claims it was made by Myrkul. I'm unaware of any text source.

 

[Olrox17]

And, one thing we have been told is that maybe AO wants the wall, to punish mortals who don't worship the gods. But, there is a small problem with that. AO changed the universe to make mortal worship neccessary to the Gods existence as a punishment to the Gods.

So, we have AO making it so that if the Gods ignore their worshippers, they are punished by a loss of power. But, if the worshipers don't worship... they are destroyed for all time by the Wall... on AO's decree? Thereby circumventing the requirement that the Gods actually need to pay attention to their followers, because all the Gods need to do know is say that if you don't worship them you are destroyed utterly, and then they can go back to ignoring them.

I don't agree, I think it makes perfect sense. Ao's will is to have a symbiotic relationship between mortals and gods. If we can agree that this is his objective, the wall and the "mortal worship required rule" work well in unison.

The wall makes sure that mortals have a strong incentive to pick a diety, any diety. Only the most diehard god-haters will be faithless as long as the wall exists.

The "mortal worship required rule" makes sure worshippers are very valuable for gods, and that dieties are in competition for mortal worship.
If a god just goes "eh, I don't need to care about my worshippers, the wall will ensure they don't become faithless", guess what happens? People will stop worshiping that particular god, and they'll start flocking to some other god, one that gives a crap about them.
So the lazy god loses power, and the active god ascends to higher divine ranks.

It works like a competitive market! The wall ensures there is a demand, and the gods are in competition to provide a supply.

 

[Orius]

You guys are overthinking things.

Myrkul doesn't need a reason for the wall. He does stuff like that just because he's a dick.

And Ao lets it stand because he really doesn't care about or even notice mortals.

 

[Olrox17]

You guys are overthinking things.

Myrkul doesn't need a reason for the wall. He does stuff like that just because he's a dick.

And Ao lets it stand because he really doesn't care about or even notice mortals.

I believe the objection to that was that Myrkul died and lost his portfolio over death, so why is Kelemvor, a decent guy, keeping the wall? And the answer to that is: he tried removing it, and a lot of mortals went faithless, so he had to backtrack under tons of divine pressure.

Also, Ao doesn't care about mortals directly, but he certainly cares about having a working, active relationship between mortals and gods.

 

[nevin]

Nope. It’s specifically if you refuse to serve them. If you never pray to them, make offerings, etc. belief in them isn’t what they get power from, it’s worship.

If you believe that they are psychotic tyrants that do not deserve worship or service, you go in the wall.

Not true. The soul goes to the fugue plane where gods servants devils and demons take souls bound for thier realms. Unclaimed souls can be claimed by gods or lower planes.
"Souls that are unclaimed by the servants of the gods are judged by Kelemvor, who decides the fate of each one. Some are charged with serving as guides for other lost souls, while others are transformed into squirming larvae and cast into the dust. The truly false and faithless are mortared into the Wall of the Faithless, the great barrier that bounds the City of the Dead, where their souls slowly dissolve and begin to become part of the stuff of the Wall itself."

The way I interpret that is if you had no faith in anything and did nothing for anyone but yourself you end in the wall. If kelemvor can find even the tiniest worth in you hell make you a worm and let you exist

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Not true. The soul goes to the fugue plane where gods servants devils and demons take souls bound for thier realms. Unclaimed souls can be claimed by gods or lower planes.
"Souls that are unclaimed by the servants of the gods are judged by Kelemvor, who decides the fate of each one. Some are charged with serving as guides for other lost souls, while others are transformed into squirming larvae and cast into the dust. The truly false and faithless are mortared into the Wall of the Faithless, the great barrier that bounds the City of the Dead, where their souls slowly dissolve and begin to become part of the stuff of the Wall itself."

The way I interpret that is if you had no faith in anything and did nothing for anyone but yourself you end in the wall. If kelemvor can find even the tiniest worth in you hell make you a worm and let you exist

I don’t see how you get that from the quoted text, tbh.

 

[nevin]

I don’t see how you get that from the quoted text, tbh.

Because you can believe in something and serve cause of a n alignment king, or simply belief system. All the souls are picked over by agents from all the gods and others. The only ones going to be judged are the one who never supported any cause that would get the attention of any of all thise other powers. Kelemvor gets the cast offs as it were then retools them into something useful to him. You have to be completly useless. I read it as if you believed in nothing and tried to do nothing you are rewarded by becoming nothing.