Dragonshield Tactics

[Aria Silverhands]

If you allow the Dragonshield to shift as a result of the pc merely ending up adjacent to the kobold, it means the pc's can't even charge the ds kobold since the kobold would just shift before the melee part of the charge went off. I'm going to house rule that a move action is an action as a whole and any reactions from movement, such as ending up adjacent to friend or foe take effect after the player declares they're done moving.

 

[Vendark]

Interestingly, the preview here uses the phrase "triggering condition" instead of "triggering action" when it (briefly) talks about immediate actions. I hope the full rules do the same.

 

[Markn]

Interestingly, the preview here uses the phrase "triggering condition" instead of "triggering action" when it (briefly) talks about immediate actions. I hope the full rules do the same.

If this were the new wording, it certainly would clear everything up.

 

[Markn]

I'd still say that in order to move in the middle of a pc's move action, the ability would have to be an 'immediate interupt'.

Interrupt implies that you have the potential to stop something from happening. Case in point - a PC moves away from an NPC and provokes - if the NPC drops the PC, he drops in the square he was about to move out of, not a square away.

I think the key may be that the action of moving adjacent to him is completing and therefore you are not interrupting the that particular "move". At this point the DS shifts and you carry on.

As I stated in my previous post, if the new terminology is triggering condition, then it would have to happen this way and would make sense.

 

[pinbot]

Interrupt implies that you have the potential to stop something from happening. Case in point - a PC moves away from an NPC and provokes - if the NPC drops the PC, he drops in the square he was about to move out of, not a square away.

You don't need to get into implications to judge whether the dragonshield tactic can interrupt a move action. (really, that sentence makes clear what the answer should be)

If a pc starts an action that may trigger immediate interrupts and or immediate responses. Interrupts happen immediately and responses--here is crucial thing--do not happen until the action is complete.

In this case the Dragonshields have an immediate response. The trigger is a pc's action. Per the 'immediate response' rules, the triggering action must be complete--meaning the pc is done moving--before the kobolds get to shift.

The only ambiguity in the rules is whether movement must END next to the DS or whether passing by triggers the ability.

Of course, the email earlier in the thread introduces new extra confusion, so hopefully it will be refuted soon.

 

[Vendark]

You don't need to get into implications to judge whether the dragonshield tactic can interrupt a move action. (really, that sentence makes clear what the answer should be)

The thing is, a reaction can't interrupt the triggering action. If the triggering action is only that one square of movement, then you aren't interrupting it by having the Dragonshield shift immediately after it.

That's the crux of the disagreement between the two sides; whether or not the triggering action is meant to mean the whole move action, or just that one square of movement that the power actually references.

 

[Markn]

The thing is, a reaction can't interrupt the triggering action. If the triggering action is only that one square of movement, then you aren't interrupting it by having the Dragonshield shift immediately after it.

That's the crux of the disagreement between the two sides; whether or not the triggering action is meant to mean the whole move action, or just that one square of movement that the power actually references.

Actually, I think the only ambiguity is whether it is a triggering condition or triggering action. Triggering action may be old terminology at this point.

Edit - Many people are viewing "action" as condition already which is the resaon there has been a discussion about the DS ability.

 

[Vendark]

Actually, I think the only ambiguity is whether it is a triggering condition or triggering action. Triggering action may be old terminology at this point.

Hard to say; that preview was online well before KotS was released, but that doesn't preclude it being a change that they missed in editing.

 

[Staffan]

A thought on the dragonshields:

They're soldiers. They're intended to be more-or-less straight-up fighting-types that keep the PCs away from the squishier skirmishers and slingers. In view of that, I think a better interpretation of the ability is to let them shift when someone moves from an adjacent square, giving them an "intercept" ability.

 

[Markn]

Hard to say; that preview was online well before KotS was released, but that doesn't preclude it being a change that they missed in editing.

True. It could also be that there was a change after KotS went to print whereas a web article could have been updated the day before. I think there could be a 2-3 month printing and shipping window prior to release. That is just conjecture of course.