Draw Steel News

I was talking about the claim that Daggerheart is a "4E successor" game. I don't know any details about Draw Steel, but I do know Coville is a big fan of many of 4E's design ethos, so I would not be surprised at all if DS ended up a 4E clone, let alone successor.
Oh yeah I should learn to read, I see you quote cut off Draw Steel! lol sorry
 

log in or register to remove this ad


I'd comment, but they have given backers zero content. by the time I get this, I'm not sure I'll care anyone.
EDIT - Let me double check

Yeah sadly you're right - they're being idiots. They sent Patreon backers the entire Release Candidate on June 24th, and I have no idea why they didn't also send it to Kickstarter backers at that point.

It's like, I get the reasoning for why they didn't do that with every update when playtesting, changing, and so on, but at this point? It's just MC's profound thoughtlessness re: anyone who isn't a Patron on Patreon - it's clearly he literally doesn't think about the actual KS Backers despite them having given him like $5m. I definitely wouldn't back any future KS by him, I'd just wait for the product.

They claimed July 17th for the full release of the PDFs, so I guess we shall see!
 
Last edited:

EDIT - Let me double check

Yeah sadly you're right - they're being idiots. They sent Patreon backers the entire Release Candidate on June 24th, and I have no idea why they didn't also send it to Kickstarter backers at that point.

It's like, I get the reasoning for why they didn't do that with every update when playtesting, changing, and so on, but at this point? It's just MC's profound thoughtlessness re: anyone who isn't a Patron on Patreon - it's clearly he literally doesn't think about the actual KS Backers despite them having given him like $5m. I definitely wouldn't back any future KS by him, I'd just wait for the product.

They claimed July 17th for the full release of the PDFs, so I guess we shall see!
I almost understand rewarding Patrons more, but we've gotten nothing for months now. I have a feeling I'll like A LOT of this game, but I'm really, really, really, turned off by their treatment of backers who gave them millions of dollars. Millions. They basically gave us the finger.
 

I almost understand rewarding Patrons more, but we've gotten nothing for months now. I have a feeling I'll like A LOT of this game, but I'm really, really, really, turned off by their treatment of backers who gave them millions of dollars. Millions. They basically gave us the finger.
Yup.

Really early on, MC made a clear and weird decision that basically he was going to ignore the KS Backers. Now, if they were drawing a fraction of his Patreon income I could understand that. But his Patreon is, by my calculations ($8/month x a bit under 9k Patrons) like $860k/year.

So like, if the KS had "only" (sheesh) made say, $1m, I could kind of see deprioritizing it.

But it made $4.6m, and yeah obviously some proportion of that is going to manufacturing and shipping the books for people who ordered those, but about 1/3rd of people went PDF only, and based on the numbers I'm seeing, printing and shipping the 38k several hundred page A4 hardback full colour books probably comes in under $1m, likely far, far under $2m (happy to be corrected by people more expert in this, I know some of you have actually done it), with some sources suggesting very significantly less.

And given the KS (well, Backerkit technically I see) had over 27k people back it, the majority of people backing are necessarily not paying Patrons on Patreon so basically MC decided to piss off (to some varying degree) 18,000 people in order to big up less than 9,000. So yeah I don't think I'll be backing anything MCDM does again, and I suspect I'm not alone. Particularly as I was on the Patreon briefly recently, and was able to see the full history of updates, and frankly there were quite a few occasions it would have made sense to "go wide" to Backerkit Backers when they just didn't.

Doesn't impact my opinion of the game, and I'm not even really "mad" in a normal sense, just disappointed/anti-impressed with the company.
 

I was talking about the claim that Daggerheart is a "4E successor" game. I don't know any details about Draw Steel, but I do know Coville is a big fan of many of 4E's design ethos, so I would not be surprised at all if DS ended up a 4E clone, let alone successor.
From what little I have seen, It's a crunchier and more tactical Daggerheart. You roll 2d10 (+ ability) and your result falls into one of three categories, depending on how well you rolled (<= 11, 12 - 16, >= 17)
 

Yup.

Really early on, MC made a clear and weird decision that basically he was going to ignore the KS Backers. Now, if they were drawing a fraction of his Patreon income I could understand that. But his Patreon is, by my calculations ($8/month x a bit under 9k Patrons) like $860k/year.

So like, if the KS had "only" (sheesh) made say, $1m, I could kind of see deprioritizing it.

But it made $4.6m, and yeah obviously some proportion of that is going to manufacturing and shipping the books for people who ordered those, but about 1/3rd of people went PDF only, and based on the numbers I'm seeing, printing and shipping the 38k several hundred page A4 hardback full colour books probably comes in under $1m, likely far, far under $2m (happy to be corrected by people more expert in this, I know some of you have actually done it), with some sources suggesting very significantly less.

And given the KS (well, Backerkit technically I see) had over 27k people back it, the majority of people backing are necessarily not paying Patrons on Patreon so basically MC decided to piss off (to some varying degree) 18,000 people in order to big up less than 9,000. So yeah I don't think I'll be backing anything MCDM does again, and I suspect I'm not alone. Particularly as I was on the Patreon briefly recently, and was able to see the full history of updates, and frankly there were quite a few occasions it would have made sense to "go wide" to Backerkit Backers when they just didn't.

Doesn't impact my opinion of the game, and I'm not even really "mad" in a normal sense, just disappointed/anti-impressed with the company.
This.
 

From what little I have seen, It's a crunchier and more tactical Daggerheart. You roll 2d10 (+ ability) and your result falls into one of three categories, depending on how well you rolled (<= 11, 12 - 16, >= 17)
That isn't particularly like DH at all, except you roll a pair of dice instead of a single d20.
 

From what little I have seen, It's a crunchier and more tactical Daggerheart. You roll 2d10 (+ ability) and your result falls into one of three categories, depending on how well you rolled (<= 11, 12 - 16, >= 17)
Everyone is running away from the D20, huh?

I am curious how much crunchier Draw Steel is. Because 5e is close to the top for me these days, Pathfinder 2 was too much. So Draw Steel falls on the wrong side for me, but it might still be interesting to me.
 

From what little I have seen, It's a crunchier and more tactical Daggerheart. You roll 2d10 (+ ability) and your result falls into one of three categories, depending on how well you rolled (<= 11, 12 - 16, >= 17)
That's not really like Daggerheart...like at all. I guess rolling two dice is something.
 

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top