[Drow] 3rd Edition/AD&D 2E vs. AD&D

[Melkor]

Hi folks,

I'm working on a D&D 3.5 game set in Greyhawk, and the characters will eventually end up in the Hellfurnaces and dealing with Drow from the Vault of the Drow.

I started playing AD&D in the mid-eighties (before Drizzt and the associated Forgotten Realms drow) with a campaign that included Queen of the Demonweb pits, and as I recall, a lot of the later AD&D 2E Drow source information was a bit different than that found in AD&D.

My question to you guys is in regards to Greyhawk Drow.

Are females dominant in 'old school' AD&D Greyhawk Drow, or was that something that was added by source information from AD&D 2E ?

Thanks!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It was in place as early as the drow's first real appearance in G3 (as opposed to the teaser in the 1E MM).

 

[Melan]

Yes, although the Drow modules didn't seem to treat them as totally emasculated - that may come from the novels.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yes, although the Drow modules didn't seem to treat them as totally emasculated - that may come from the novels.

Yeah, I was surprised to later read the novels and see what had once just been a reversal of normal male/female then-contemporary power structure turned into, frankly, kind of a reverse Gor situation.

 

[Elfdart]

Female Drow have always been stronger than the males. This goes back at least as far as the Fiend Folio.

One cliche that has crept in to Drowlore is the idea of Lolth being a Drow goddess. That might be true for the Vault in D3, but even there Lolth has competition from other demon lords and evil gods. It should also be pointed out that Lolth has human followers like Lareth in T1. The idea of Lolth being a Drow goddess is a recent brain bug.

 

[Garnfellow]

As others have already written, drow females were superior to males right from the beginning. They had considerably better ability scores and higher level limits than the males, could move faster, and had some additional spell-like abilities. I think some of these differences were toned down in 2e (but I'm not sure), and in 3e this all goes away.

When I did my 3e conversion of D1-2-3, I simulated the difference by giving most female drow the elite array and levels of PC classes, while the males usually got stuck with the non-elite array and levels of NPC classes.

 

[grodog]

Melkor---

If you're looking for additional AD&D drow info to supplement your game, check out these useful sources:

• MerricB's Canonfire! article "Upon the True History of the Drow/Giant Incursion" @ http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=165
• If you're looking for an excellent 3e version of Erelhei Cinlu, see Russell Bird's Oerth Journal article "Erelhei-Cinlu, Drow City of Pleasure" by Russell Bird. It appears in issue 14, downloadable from Canonfire! at http://www.greyhawkonline.com/OJ_14.pdf. The Oerth Journal is a free, fan publication, so you can't beat the price!
• You should also check out Fred Weining's wonderful article "The Vault of the Drow: Dark Elf Metropolis" in Living Greyhawk Journal #14 (appearing in Dragon 298, August 2002). Fred also published a follow-up article entitled "Playing Pieces: Denizens of Darkness" in Living Greyhawk Journal #16/Dragon 300 (October 2002). Fred is one of the co-authors of the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, so you won't be disappointed if you track down the back issue!

I've used the additional info from both articles in my campaigns to round out the drow vault and their city of Erelhei Cinlu, while Merric's offers some great insight into what's really going on, plot-wise, with the GDQ series.

 

[Cam Banks]

I've used the additional info from both articles in my campaigns to round out the drow vault and their city of Erelhei Cinlu, while Merric's offers some great insight into what's really going on, plot-wise, with the GDQ series.

Is that city's name an anagram of somebody's name? It sure looks like one!

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Garnfellow]

One cliche that has crept in to Drowlore is the idea of Lolth being a Drow goddess. That might be true for the Vault in D3, but even there Lolth has competition from other demon lords and evil gods. It should also be pointed out that Lolth has human followers like Lareth in T1. The idea of Lolth being a Drow goddess is a recent brain bug.

I have occasionally thought that I was the only person in the entire multiverse who disliked making Lolth into a deity. In my campaign, she will always be "only" a CR 19 demon queen, though she has successfully convinced multitudes (including countless drow) that she has ascended to divinity. It's all a lie, of course. An incredibly perverse and pervasive lie, but a lie nonetheless.

There is an obscure little footnote in the underworld encounter tables for D3 that reads "30% of all drow encountered are cryptic worshippers of the Elder Elemental God, and will be disposed to ignore arachnid slayers." That's a pretty significant number, and (I assume) only applies to the drow around Erelhei-Cinlu, the base of Lolth's power on Oerth. To me, this has always suggested that drow in other places might venerate a wide variety of demonic powers. I could easily envision drow cities where Juiblex, Graz'zt, Orcus, or maybe even older and darker powers -- an obyrith lord, perhaps? -- hold sway.

Of course, I’m not sure I would describe the idea of Lolth’s divinity as “a recent brain bug.” It really all began back with Q1 and the original Deities and Demigods book. I’ve been swimming against the current ever since.

 

[Garnfellow]

Melkor---

If you're looking for additional AD&D drow info to supplement your game, check out these useful sources:

These are all great sources. The Robin Laws article on drow culture (also in 298) has some great (and utterly sick) 3e twists.

And although the Forgotten Realms' overuse of drow is much (and deservedly) maligned, Ed Greenwood's 2nd edition Drow of the Underdark really is an excellent book, and very respectful of Gygax's original vision.