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No the respectful @Xenonnonex implied that those Asians who did not offer the same view as the offended Asians was because
they were told to bear it and not rock the boat, thus their opinions were not of outrage.

This informs us that @Xenonnonex believes:
1. All Asian Americans should, if not have, the same opinion.
2. Differing opinions from Asians Americans are due to them being told to bear it and not rock the boat. They felt the need to conform.
3. All Asian Americans have the same experiences.

EDIT: And then you get the complaint that Gygax and co did a pastiche of all asian cultures to produce OA meanwhile you have a poster painting all AA with one really broad brush.
Are you okay?
 

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What evidence do you have to your first proposition that an Asian American community exists? I understand that people act like it is true, but is it true in reality? Does the act of believing something is true make it true?
Google it.
Asian American Community Services is one of the first results.
There is Asian Americans United.
There are at least 20 Asian American Organizations.
Trying to not believe it exists. Does not make it so.
 

No. That is how they are raised. As immigrants. I have witnessed this. Some friends have told me this. Anecdotal. But it seems to be cultural. Ingrained. Not to make waves.
Anecdotal evidence is still evidence. As are the experiences of those individuals raised with (ingrained) religious beliefs, who choose to turn away from them later in life.
 
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Google it.
Asian American Community Services is one of the first results.
There is Asian Americans United.
There are at least 20 Asian American Organizations.
Trying to not believe it exists. Does not make it so.
Those only prove that humans act as if they exist. I'm not denying that many act that way. I'm considering whether they are factually justified in acting that way.

Edit: Also, I would like to add, I believe the organizations exists. But their existed is predicated on the existence of an underlying Asian American community. I am questioning the existence of the latter.
 
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Mecheon

Adventurer
Those only prove that humans act as if they exist. I'm not denying that many act that way. I'm considering whether they are factually justified in acting that way.
I don't mean to be rude, but

What the actual hell point are you trying to make?

Are you saying "There is no overaching all-encompassing group of Asian Americans"? Because, yeah, I think everyone knows that. But are you then trying to use that to say that "We cannot acknowledge the possible shared experience of several ones, reported anecdotally, until such time there is"? Because that is such a stupid point I hope you're not, but the mess tween yourself and other posters up-thread is such a entangled mess I literately cannot get any other meaning out of it
 

I don't mean to be rude, but

What the actual hell point are you trying to make?

Are you saying "There is no overaching all-encompassing group of Asian Americans"? Because, yeah, I think everyone knows that. But are you then trying to use that to say that "We cannot acknowledge the possible shared experience of several ones, reported anecdotally, until such time there is"? Because that is such a stupid point I hope you're not, but the mess tween yourself and other posters up-thread is such a entangled mess I literately cannot get any other meaning out of it
No. My point is that racism is an epistemological problem, grounded in unjustified propositions. But instead of correcting the flawed epistemological process, many people have decided to banning (or limit) art. The art only contributes to harmful stereotypes because we allow a flawed epistemological process to continue. I also believe that banning art is will not solve the problem of racism, for we that same flawed epistemological process will manifest from other sources. Therefore, I advocate for another solution.
 

Azzy

Newtype
What sophistry? You propose the existence of a fact relevant to the conversation. I'm not sure it is true, and am interested in your justification as to how you came to believe it to be a fact.
I'm not sure that you are engaging in this conversation in good faith, either, but here we are.

But if you want to know how I came to "believe" that it is so, I'd like to introduce you to the definition of the word "community" and ask why you're not sure that an Asian-American community exists and does not fit any of the included definitions provided therein.
 
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Azzy

Newtype
No. My point is that racism is an epistemological problem, grounded in unjustified propositions. But instead of correcting the flawed epistemological process, many people have decided to banning (or limit) art. The art only contributes to harmful stereotypes because we allow a flawed epistemological process to continue. I also believe that banning art is will not solve the problem of racism, for we that same flawed epistemological process will manifest from other sources. Therefore, I advocate for another solution.
This, @pemerton , is why I made my earlier comment.
 

I'm not sure that you are engaging in this conversation in good faith, either, but here we are.

But if you want to know how I came to "believe" that it is so, I'd like to introduce you to the definition of the word "community" and ask why you're not sure than an Asian-American community exists and do not fit any of the included definitions provided therein.
Good. That's a nice first step. But providing a definition of something is not enough to prove its existence. Likewise, I can provided a definition of a unicorn, but that does not mean one exists for me to find one in the local forest.

Now, the base definition you provided is "a unified body of individuals". All other definitions stem from this one, indicated by the indentation (I'm sure you already know this). Thus, we should prove that a unified body of individuals can exist. I agree that we act as if we form unified bodies, but can any body of individuals truly be unified? Personally, I'm skeptical.

Then we must ask, is the Asian American community unified? My answer is "probably not," though I am open to evidence to the contrary.
 

Azzy

Newtype
Good. That's a nice first step. But providing a definition of something is not enough to prove its existence. Likewise, I can provided a definition of a unicorn, but that does not mean one exists for me to find one in the local forest.

Now, the base definition you provided is "a unified body of individuals". All other definitions stem from this one, indicated by the indentation (I'm sure you already know this). Thus, we should prove that a unified body of individuals can exist. I agree that we act as if we form unified bodies, but can any body of individuals truly be unified? Personally, I'm skeptical.

Then we must ask, is the Asian American community unified? My answer is "probably not," though I am open to evidence to the contrary.
More sophistry.
 


Sadras

Hero
No. My point is that racism is an epistemological problem, grounded in unjustified propositions. But instead of correcting the flawed epistemological process, many people have decided to banning (or limit) art. The art only contributes to harmful stereotypes because we allow a flawed epistemological process to continue. I also believe that banning art is will not solve the problem of racism, for we that same flawed epistemological process will manifest from other sources. Therefore, I advocate for another solution.
Would the expertise of a cultural consultant be such a solution to this flawed epistemological process?
 

Would the expertise of a cultural consultant be such a solution to this flawed epistemological process?
Perhaps. I don't know very much (if anything) about cultural consultancy, so I cannot say one way or the other.

Here is an example my own experience. I think I did a good job handling this situation.

I am an emigrant from the US. I left the US because I found more meaning abroad. I experience a fair share of ethnocentric comments, but am able to easily brush them off as unjustified. They simply display the ignorance of the speaker.

Recently, however, I saw several news stories related to a number travesties occurring in the US (I'm sure everyone knows the details, so I won't go into them). My reaction was my home-country is going bonkers. I was outraged.

Then I realized that the statement my country may have been unjustified. Do I own my country? Does my country own me? Does of being born within the same set of borders give me any greater connection the people committing and the victims of those acts than anyone else in the world? After deciding that those claim were unjustified, my outrage faded. Horrible things happen in the world every day. They are all tragedies, but those things happening in the US were not directed at me, specifically.

Since then, I've been thinking a lot about the pandemic, racism, and activism.

I saw how the pandemic was easily solved in some countries, but not others. Did that mean there was something inherently superior about those countries, or did its officials and individual citizens simply make different choices? If better choices, grounded in firmer evidence, had been made in some countries, fewer humans would have lost their lives.

Then I looked at racism, and discovered that no racist belief can be properly justified: despite differences in racial outcomes (which may be the result of numerous facts), there are greater differences in success inside race categories than between them. Once again, the problem was one of epistemology.

Still, I looked deeper into the problems I saw occurring in the US. I have a neighbor who can't say two good words about the Turks, yet she has never (intentionally) harmed someone of Turkish origin. Thus racism can be either violent or non-violent (but still incredible problematic. Regardless, belief is racial superiority is not enough to cause physical harm. I Malice, wrath, or simple indifference is also necessary.

Then I looked at activism, and saw that very few people were trying to solve the problem of correct epistemological reasoning. I see individuals telling whites to examine their whiteness, etc. But whiteness is not itself a problem. White is a color, not a belief system. The problem, I see, is that we (me included) believe things that are not true, but lack the humility to admit our beliefs about the world are not justified.
 
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Azzy

Newtype
As I have said before, sophistry was the act of claiming to know something without have sufficient evidence - which is the opposite of what I am doing.
No, what it seems that you are doing is feigning ignorance on a matter (such as how a group of people whose ethnic and national origins from East Asia, having a shared history of being marginalised, stereotyped, and such that are living within a larger society constitutes a community), and using mental gymnastics to refuse this community's existence. And you seem to be doing this while trying to portray yourself as logical and rational when each step of the way your agument becomes ever increasingly spurious and ridiculous.. It's just exhausting.
 

No, what it seems that you are doing is feigning ignorance on a matter (such as how a group of people whose ethnic and national origins from East Asia, having a shared history of being marginalised, stereotyped, and such that are living within a larger society constitutes a community), and using mental gymnastics to refuse this community's existence. And you seem to be doing this while trying to portray yourself as logical and rational when each step of the way your agument becomes ever increasingly spurious and ridiculous.. It's just exhausting.
I'm not denying that people classified into the group "Asian Americans" (which I believe to be a dubious step) were marginalized and stereotyped. I'm argue that all basis for those marginalization and stereotypes is rooted in misconceptions that must be differentiated from fact.
 

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