WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Sadras]

I’m not sure you want from me. I’m not sure how I am deflecting the point much less how it stands on an argument that amounts to more than “it is what it is.” In a post where I briefly address and express my thoughts about pastiche European settings like Mystara and Theah you accuse me of ignoring them and that being offended by how real cultures are imagined in game setting is “weak sauce.” Now you are saying that this “IS the history of D&D”? Well so what? What would you like to argue Sadras - what are you arguing? - because I’m too impatient to play guessing games.

Your entire argument predicated on: If you were Asian ( or insert ethnicity here) imagine X, imagine Y.
My point is D&D settings have always been imagine X and imagine Y.
To rebel against this specific inspiration and say you cannot imagine X or imagine Y because it touches on your own ethnicity, but the rest is fine is and I will happily keep playing it because it doesn't touch on my own culture because heaven-forbid someone not of my look designs it, is frankly weak sauce.

So stereotypes are absolutely fine as long as they are inspired by the rest of the world's histories and cultures but not my own.

 

[Aldarc]

I can concur - the Italian Mystaran fanbase is inspiring. Along with a few others around the globe they have put together the loving-crafted Threhold magazine which is still going strong.

How many people who play D&D today can (1) list Mystara as a D&D setting, (2) tell you the salient points about the setting. While I admire fan communities who keep old settings alive, Mystara has not been supported in decades and it’s actually kind of a fringe setting in the community. It ranked fairly low below a lot of other settings when WotC did its polling about most popular settings, which was before Critical Role took off like it did.

 

[Xenonnonex]

A warning would have been good. To open up dialogue.
These are issues that do need addressing. Because Asians have usually suffered silently from vilification. Do not dare deny this.
If creators from the cultures can use the material as inspiration that would be best. To make their own settings with creative freedom. And with less insensitive material.

 

[Fenris-77]

I really don't think Italian-inspired cannibal halflings are a good idea. Gives Grandma's meatballs and spaghetti a whole new meaning.

IDK, I think it's got a charming Sweeney Todd sort of thing going on. Oh look honey, he's eating my leg! Who's a cute little halfling?...

 

[Sadras]

How many people who play D&D today can (1) list Mystara as a D&D setting, (2) tell you the salient points about the setting. While I admire fan communities who keep old settings alive, Mystara has not been supported in decades and it’s actually kind of a fringe setting in the community. It ranked fairly low below a lot of other settings when WotC did its polling about most popular settings, which was before Critical Role took off like it did.

How many people own OA? How many people today use OA? Your point?

 

[Danzauker]

How many people who play D&D today can (1) list Mystara as a D&D setting, (2) tell you the salient points about the setting. While I admire fan communities who keep old settings alive, Mystara has not been supported in decades and it’s actually kind of a fringe setting in the community. It ranked fairly low below a lot of other settings when WotC did its polling about most popular settings, which was before Critical Role took off like it did.

So it's just a matter of popularuty of the setting?

 

[Xenonnonex]

IDK, I think it's got a charming Sweeney Todd sort of thing going on. Oh look honey, he's eating my leg! Who's a cute little halfling?...

Dark Sun halflings are the best.

 

[Danzauker]

Dark Sun halflings are the best.

Absolutely

 

[Danzauker]

A warning would have been good. To open up dialogue.
These are issues that do need addressing. Because Asians have usually suffered silently from vilification. Do not dare deny this.
If creators from the cultures can use the material as inspiration that would be best. To make their own settings with creative freedom. And with less insensitive material.

I have no problems with a warning attached to the PDF. They already do it for movies after all. I recognize in this particular moment it's the best option.

What i'm opposed to is:

1) the notion that a game setting or any fantasy work must be historically or culturally accurate. It's fantasy. If I want Italian Ninja Halflings in a book, it's my call.

2) the fact that only people of one ethnicity can write/create work about that. I find it blatantly segregationist.

3) banning or worse censoring/modification of old books and other art. Every work reflects in good and in bad the times and places it was written.

I'm pretty sure all future D&D products based on Asian cultures and tropes will be written much differently from 1E OA. 35 years have passed, society is different, sensibilities are different.

 

[GreyLord]

Can someone elighten me?

The term 'Oriental' maybe doesnt have the same connotations here in Australia than elsewhere.

Whats wrong with the title?

As an Asian, I stand with Margaret Cho: "I think what it is is that white people like to tell Asians how to feel."

From an editorial in the Chicago Tribune by J. Tsuchiyama: "As an Oriental, I am bemused. Apparently Asians are supposed to feel demeaned if someone refers to us as Orientals. But good luck finding a single Asian American who has ever had the word spat at them in anger. Most Asian Americans have had racist epithets hurled at them at one time or another...But Oriental isn't in the canon. And why should it be? Literally, it means of the Orient or of the East, as opposed to of the Occident or of the West. Last I checked, geographic origin is not a slur. If it were, it would be wrong to label people from Mississippi as Southerners."

Haven't gotten through all the pages, but this is a topic visited once before. I have quite a number of RPG players in Eastern Asia and South Western Asia.

When asked about the term Oriental, they remarked about the not so remarkable wisdom of those in the United States (they actually used other terms, but those terms are fairly derogatory) and other places which assume to take offense for them and create things where things should not exist.

They DID have MASSIVE problems with what they saw as some other very derogatory terms tossed at them (model minority for example is not seen as favorably by all of them as some others may think).

Many of those players actually were fans of the Oriental Adventures (and were some of those I play that version of AD&D with to this day when we get together).

That does not mean that it is not an offensive term to some in the US or Europe though. In that light, instead of having white males dictate what is or is not acceptable, perhaps it should be given over to those of Japanese and Chinese (and also Korean probably) descent as those seem to be the heritages and history to whom the original OA took it's inspiration from. If they decided that there need to be notifications or references to history or even to take it down, it probably should be their decision rather than white males (or anyone else who is not of that heritage) making those decisions regarding it.