No. Every one of dozens of interviews and articles out there has made it explicitly clear we're not talking about just a character builder. That's just one part of it.
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No. Every one of dozens of interviews and articles out there has made it explicitly clear we're not talking about just a character builder. That's just one part of it.
And the other parts are...? Sorry, but while I've seen this assertion made many times, I have the damndest time finding out what the other parts are supposed to be. I'm at work so I can't watch the recent video interviews/podcasts, and no one seems to have a transcript up. Googling the subject, mostly what I get is a months-old list of features here on ENWorld, with the highlights being "character generation, adventure management, and rule lookups." Adventure management and rule lookups are also not exactly breathtaking new ideas.
What we got in the beta was a character builder. Plain and simple. And not a very good one.
Campaign manager, content creation and sharing, adventure manager, that sort of stuff.
I don't think anyone's making claim to breathtaking new ideas. Not even Elon Musk and JJ Abrahms! While your opinion of its quality is yours, of course, IMO something doesn't have to be a breathtaking new idea to warrant interest.
Fair enough, and I finally located something with some specifics here: http://www.madadventurers.com/dungeonscape-the-fellowship-of-the-thing/
So, basically an automated system to produce something like d20srd.org out of every published D&D book, and hook it into a character builder and DMing tools. Okay. I approve of this. d20srd.org is awesome. But it's not new. If you don't have a new thing, the question is: How well are you executing the old thing? That's where I don't see a compelling case.
(Looking back over my last couple posts, I have to admit they were a little over the top. The hype I've seen around Dungeonscape/Morningstar just rubs me the wrong way--it triggers all of my "overhyped technology" warnings, which I associate with a) salespeople hawking crappy products and b) technophiles more interested in one-upping each other's geek cred than in what gets the job done efficiently. I should probably try to tone down the hostility in my response.)
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Hollow Man
Explorer
I really want to be positive, but sadly, they just don't have a track record of delivering anything, so how can anyone trust they'll deliver on their Kickstarter?
I've been following them from the beginning, and what I saw of the iOS version of DungeonScape at Gen Con was decent. But sadly, I agree with some here that the web version was not good. And Trapdoor admits this, but the problem is that this product should've been ready, not just by now, but ready at the time of the PHB launch (and perhaps even the Starter Set launch). They simply don't have the manpower, nor I think the project management expertise, to deliver on multiple platforms.
And while it's all well and good that they want to push their content management system, and not just a character builder, what do I have to prove that this works at all like they've said? Judging by the state of the web app's character builder, I don't have a lot of faith that the other aspects (i.e. The Forge), which we haven't even seen, are necessarily any better made.
The biggest problem I have though (besides the fact that their demeanor implies I should trust them with my money even though they've released nothing), is that management of the project was substandard. Apparently they signed a contract with WotC that didn't outline what was to be delivered, nor did it provide them money for development, nor did it provide them any protection from WotC backing out of the deal. Personally, I wouldn't have entered into an agreement with WotC under those conditions.
They say the reason the project was cancelled by WotC is because they had a different "vision" of what it was to be. Basically, they say WotC mainly wanted a character builder, and Trapdoor instead saw DungeonScape as a piece of software that would contain, help run, and publish adventures. But how did a contract get signed when, if I'm to believe Trapdoor, the two parties didn't agree on what the product would actually be?
So if I add all of this up, and merge it with the fact that it will no longer support 5e, I find that I can't consider giving them money without getting something immediately in return. There's already been too much promising with very little delivered, and it seems the odds are that this will continue to happen (past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior).
It's been an interesting ride so far though, so you can bet I'll continue to still read news, listen to interviews, watch the Kickstarter (I can't wait to see how much money they ask for and how much they raise), and see what ends up being released.
-HM
I've been following them from the beginning, and what I saw of the iOS version of DungeonScape at Gen Con was decent. But sadly, I agree with some here that the web version was not good. And Trapdoor admits this, but the problem is that this product should've been ready, not just by now, but ready at the time of the PHB launch (and perhaps even the Starter Set launch). They simply don't have the manpower, nor I think the project management expertise, to deliver on multiple platforms.
And while it's all well and good that they want to push their content management system, and not just a character builder, what do I have to prove that this works at all like they've said? Judging by the state of the web app's character builder, I don't have a lot of faith that the other aspects (i.e. The Forge), which we haven't even seen, are necessarily any better made.
The biggest problem I have though (besides the fact that their demeanor implies I should trust them with my money even though they've released nothing), is that management of the project was substandard. Apparently they signed a contract with WotC that didn't outline what was to be delivered, nor did it provide them money for development, nor did it provide them any protection from WotC backing out of the deal. Personally, I wouldn't have entered into an agreement with WotC under those conditions.
They say the reason the project was cancelled by WotC is because they had a different "vision" of what it was to be. Basically, they say WotC mainly wanted a character builder, and Trapdoor instead saw DungeonScape as a piece of software that would contain, help run, and publish adventures. But how did a contract get signed when, if I'm to believe Trapdoor, the two parties didn't agree on what the product would actually be?
So if I add all of this up, and merge it with the fact that it will no longer support 5e, I find that I can't consider giving them money without getting something immediately in return. There's already been too much promising with very little delivered, and it seems the odds are that this will continue to happen (past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior).
It's been an interesting ride so far though, so you can bet I'll continue to still read news, listen to interviews, watch the Kickstarter (I can't wait to see how much money they ask for and how much they raise), and see what ends up being released.
-HM
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RealAlHazred
Frumious Flumph (Your Grace/Your Eminence)
Wow. Kudos for using bloviate! You don't see that in everyday language, despite the fact that it's a perfectly cromulent word.
It's a lifestyle choice, I guess; attacking people who are trying to do things. It's not one I've personally subscribed to, though.
Why not just ignore it if it makes you that angry?
Why say anything about anything, positive or negative? Because we like to share our opinions, a trait which is pretty much hardwired into humanity, and is generally beneficial in that it gives people the input of other people when making decisions. In this case, Trapdoor is asking for money to continue doing a thing, and it's quite relevant to discuss the quality of the thing to date and whether it's worth paying money for them to keep doing it. If they end up failing to produce anything, anyone who's contributed to the Kickstarter will have lost that money. And if they produce something that doesn't live up to the hype, the money might have been better spent elsewhere.
So I'll moderate my tone, which was needlessly destructive, but I'm not going to shy away from saying I don't think Trapdoor has justified paying into a Kickstarter for its product, and if I'm going to say that I'll certainly explain why. If someone finds that input useful, great. If not, oh well.
It's not like there aren't other products out there doing much the same thing. DM Minion/Player Minion have been released for 5E; I've played around with them a bit and they look pretty decent. Haven't tried out Fight Club yet but I'm definitely interested. (Though I wonder how they're dealing with the licensing issues. Do they have reason to expect an OGL soon? Or are they just hoping to fly under Hasbro's radar?) I don't know what game Trapdoor intends to target with Morningstar now their deal with Wizards is off, though five will get you twenty it starts with a "P" and ends with an "athfinder," but I dare say it has its own electronic offerings, too.
Hollow Man
Explorer
I'm actually also amused that's it's almost end of work day here on the USA East Coast, and they still don't have the Kickstarter up yet. I guess it wasn't ready to go, which somehow doesn't surprise me.
More power to them...I hope they find their audience. More than the character builder, or the adventure content management system, I was personally looking forward to having the rules for all the Core books in my iPad. Furthermore, I was welcoming of the concept that they wouldn't simply be pdfs, but concept sensitive based on what part of the app I was looking at. I'm really sorry to see those dreams dashed, and am eagerly waiting to see some sort of announcement from WotC on what digital form the rules will now take. This is sorely needed.
-HM
More power to them...I hope they find their audience. More than the character builder, or the adventure content management system, I was personally looking forward to having the rules for all the Core books in my iPad. Furthermore, I was welcoming of the concept that they wouldn't simply be pdfs, but concept sensitive based on what part of the app I was looking at. I'm really sorry to see those dreams dashed, and am eagerly waiting to see some sort of announcement from WotC on what digital form the rules will now take. This is sorely needed.
-HM
