D&D 5E (2014) Dungeonscape Lives!

[Adammar]

As far as the goal for the Kickstarter, we're staffing 10+ people full-time to create this project, which, frankly, is going to be to the level of quality you would expect from a place like Microsoft, Google, or Apple. 425k is actually a very very tight budget for this kind of effort.

I think that is where you are loosing me. I was told that there was a product that would be ready for the holidays and supported 5E. This new product is scheduled to be in April which is not far off. From the descriptions given I don't see much difference from the already available Realmworks and Herolab. There Kickstarter did not come close to being on time based on all the testing that needed to be done on the back end which as far as I know hasn't been done yet in large quantities for you. They raised less then half of what you are asking when they had a completed character creator.

It also seems that half of your staff is not involved in development. (Two customer service reps on a non existing product?)

I wish you luck but it seems like this is more of a Santa's Wish list then a realistic business plan looking to get investors.

 

[Newtonian]

I think that is where you are loosing me. I was told that there was a product that would be ready for the holidays and supported 5E. This new product is scheduled to be in April which is not far off. From the descriptions given I don't see much difference from the already available Realmworks and Herolab. There Kickstarter did not come close to being on time based on all the testing that needed to be done on the back end which as far as I know hasn't been done yet in large quantities for you. They raised less then half of what you are asking when they had a completed character creator.

It also seems that half of your staff is not involved in development. (Two customer service reps on a non existing product?)

I wish you luck but it seems like this is more of a Santa's Wish list then a realistic business plan looking to get investors.

The product was designed from the ground up to be 5e exclusive. We were slated to release the first version of DungeonScape back in August before negotiations on business matters took a turn. Luckily, we own the technology (if not the content.) But, it takes time to refactor a product for a new ruleset, finish it for Android and Web, and build a content creation tool/publishing platform.

The main difference between us and HeroLab is the publishing engine combined with the GM's tools. You don't have to be an expert to use them. You can run a full game from your iPad without the need for another tool. We also believe that the Book paradigm is still important to the game, along with good design. Nobody wants to look at a complicated white page of numbers.

As far as CS, we're already working with people to publish their adventures in our store. This requires a lot of direct communication. We also have a Kickstarter to run...which means fulfillment and answering questions.

This is the right business plan to do a project like this properly. We don't claim to be perfect, but we know how to build software, and it's disingenuous to represent otherwise.

 

[Truename]

The first thing I look at for a Kickstarter project is the "Risks and Challenges" section. I feel it gives me insight into the character of the creators, and it also helps me understand how the project will deal with the inevitable problems that arise.

In this case, I was disappointed:

Morningstar brings the power of mobile devices to preparing and playing traditional RPG games. While this change is exciting, it is also challenging. The most significant risks to the project are delays brought about by our commitment to an open design policy. During the initial 12 months of development, our alpha and beta users proved invaluable in improving the game play features of Morningstar. This process produces the highest-quality product. However, it also introduces the possibilities of delays as we incorporate new features for a better overall experience. We have built our development schedule to handle these events, but with over 20,000+ users having tested Morningstar to date, we know that improvements (and the corresponding delays) can come at any time.

Software project management is my field. It's incredibly risky: it's *expensive* and nearly impossible to estimate reliably. 90% of typical software projects take longer than estimated; 50% take more than twice as long. $425K is hardly anything for a team of software developers. I don't know how many people they have, but they could easily be burning $50-100K per month when all costs are included.

They've scheduled three months to release six modules AND rewrite the rules engine for Pathfinder, on three different platforms. (Kickstarter ends in January; delivery is estimated for April.) Given the rules bugs reported for the 5e version, and given the much higher complexity of the Pathfinder ruleset, I just don't believe it. Coding that sort of imprecise, highly-connected, often subject-to-interpretation logic is way harder than it looks at first glance.

If their "risks and challenges" had been less marketing-speak and more about how they planned to manage complexity, reduce scope, or release in phases, I would have been happier.

 

[fjw70]

I am mostly interested in the adventure publishing. Do you have a sample of what the adventures on here would look like? Will I be able to tap a room in a dungeon and go to the description of that room and other interactive things like that? Will I have to buy the software in order to purchase the ebook modules?

 

[Newtonian]

The first thing I look at for a Kickstarter project is the "Risks and Challenges" section. I feel it gives me insight into the character of the creators, and it also helps me understand how the project will deal with the inevitable problems that arise.

In this case, I was disappointed:

Software project management is my field. It's incredibly risky: it's *expensive* and nearly impossible to estimate reliably. 90% of typical software projects take longer than estimated; 50% take more than twice as long. $425K is hardly anything for a team of software developers. I don't know how many people they have, but they could easily be burning $50-100K per month when all costs are included.

They've scheduled three months to release six modules AND rewrite the rules engine for Pathfinder, on three different platforms. (Kickstarter ends in January; delivery is estimated for April.) Given the rules bugs reported for the 5e version, and given the much higher complexity of the Pathfinder ruleset, I just don't believe it. Coding that sort of imprecise, highly-connected, often subject-to-interpretation logic is way harder than it looks at first glance.

If their "risks and challenges" had been less marketing-speak and more about how they planned to manage complexity, reduce scope, or release in phases, I would have been happier.

Hahah.. Thanks Truename. It's ironic, because you're one of the few people who really seems to know what we're actually up against. 425k is pennies compared to what some projects need. I used to work at a mobile company that would budget 200-300k for a 6 week casual game product that only had one or two tapping functions.

Thanks for the feedback on the Risks and Challenges. I will definitely put some more comprehensive information in there.

We're at a lower risk of failure because we actually hit our deadline estimations for the product when it was 5e. This is the estimate for refactoring an existing codebase.

 

[Newtonian]

I am mostly interested in the adventure publishing. Do you have a sample of what the adventures on here would look like? Will I be able to tap a room in a dungeon and go to the description of that room and other interactive things like that? Will I have to buy the software in order to purchase the ebook modules?

Great questions. We'll be working on screenshots of the platform for potential backers. Keep an eye on us!

As far as interactive cross-linked text, yes.

The software will be free to download. You'll be able to purchase ebook modules through the app at that point.

 

[Hollow Man]

I posted this in the Pathfinder forums, but felt it was worthwhile for the D&D folks to see it too:

I simply think that Trapdoor is grossly overestimating the amount of money the community is willing to spend on a project like this. After all, tabletop RPGs are not as popular as video games, and it's those projects, done by AAA studios, that are the most likely to see this kind of cash donated.

Trapdoor: why did you not make the iOS version version your goal, and add web and Android versions as stretch goals? That version is clearly where your expertise is, and the money needed to develop it would be so much less than what the community is willing to spend to fund everything.

I also think it would've been prudent to have stretch goals for each of the modules. This way it would be much more likely to have some small success, and perhaps revisit the Kickstarter if all goals weren't met the first time.

It's unfortunate that all your initial money has been spent on a deal that fell apart, but to expect that the community is willing to take on all of the burden, funding for a rule set that they can use for free, is a goal that's most likely unattainable. Please consider this, because I think you're more likely to have a successful campaign if you relaunch with much a much smaller scope.

-HM

 

[Newtonian]

I posted this in the Pathfinder forums, but felt it was worthwhile for the D&D folks to see it too:

I simply think that Trapdoor is grossly overestimating the amount of money the community is willing to spend on a project like this. After all, tabletop RPGs are not as popular as video games, and it's those projects, done by AAA studios, that are the most likely to see this kind of cash donated.

Trapdoor: why did you not make the iOS version version your goal, and add web and Android versions as stretch goals? That version is clearly where your expertise is, and the money needed to develop it would be so much less than what the community is willing to spend to fund everything.

I also think it would've been prudent to have stretch goals for each of the modules. This way it would be much more likely to have some small success, and perhaps revisit the Kickstarter if all goals weren't met the first time.

It's unfortunate that all your initial money has been spent on a deal that fell apart, but to expect that the community is willing to take on all of the burden, funding for a rule set that they can use for free, is a goal that's most likely unattainable. Please consider this, because I think you're more likely to have a successful campaign if you relaunch with much a much smaller scope.

-HM

We have about 28 days to see if this is something the Tabletop community will invest in. It's a grand experiment, and we're swinging for the fences. I think everybody wants this. We demoed the app to over 500 people at Gen Con, and the reception we got convinced us that this is something the genre needs. Do you have kids? This is the app that will get them into tabletop gaming. We've already seen it happen with our playtests.

As far as carving the project into smaller chunks...we thought seriously about that but decided against it. Morningstar is designed to make each of these modules work together, making each more valuable as a whole. You don't build a car by asking for funds to build a chassis with wheels and ask people to drive it while we work on the doors.

As far as platforms, we already have the infrastructure in place to do all 3 platforms (iOS, Android, and Web). Only supporting iOS would be disingenuous about the scope of the project we're shooting for. And besides, we'd lose about 3/4 of our potential audience by doing that.

 

[Umbran]

I think everybody wants this.

Pathfinder players, perhaps, but they aren't "everyone". I think utility beyond the Pathfinder player base is too far in the future for most folks not playing that game to engage with you.

As far as platforms, we already have the infrastructure in place to do all 3 platforms (iOS, Android, and Web). Only supporting iOS would be disingenuous about the scope of the project we're shooting for. And besides, we'd lose about 3/4 of our potential audience by doing that.

The latter point is fair, the former not so much. Let us not kid ourselves - infrastructure or not, coding for and maintaining on three different platforms is *hard*. The public, for the most part, understands this, and would not find it at all odd that you chose one route for your initial offering. There's nothing disingenuous about that.

 

[BrockBallingdark]

I left Pathfinder for 5E, I already have Herolab and Realmworks. Unfortunately this KS will do nothing for me.
If it supported WOD I would think about it.